Autopilot backward

Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

What you propose is going to be highly dangerous in confined waters. The forces on the rudder increase rapidly the further it gets off centre when going astern. If you want to go gently astern with the wheel unattended, then lock the wheel very firmly, don't try it with the autopilot. If your boat needs to have plenty of power for the autopilot to keep it on course going ahead I don't see how it can possibly cope astern.
P.S. If you crash into something whilst going astern with a modifed autopilot doing a job it was not designed for, I wonder what your insurers will say to your claim.
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

sometimes heaving to is possible sometimes it is not /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif


as an example, this is where I often think about the backward pilot: my port is the one on the centre right, dominant winds are NW and SW so heaving to or even leaving the boat without steerage (no sail, no engine) would bring me immediately on the banks on the side of the middle channel;
with 15, 20kt wind in order to keep steerage in forward I must push with the engine at say 5 knots, which means that I am very soon at the N or S extremities of the channel;
in reverse, in gentle idle, with a much stabler boat the "backward pilot" might be able to keep it out of the side banks, and leave plenty of time to prepare before hitting something N or S (ferry excepted /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif)
locm.jpg
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

[ QUOTE ]
If your boat needs to have plenty of power for the autopilot to keep it on course going ahead I don't see how it can possibly cope astern.


[/ QUOTE ]

well if the wind (say 15-20kt or more) is from the bow the boat is intrinsically unstable, a little deviation and the wind will push the bow downwind and at slow speed the pilot with the rudder completely on one side may not produce enough force to bring the bow back into the wind

whereas if the wind comes from astern the boat is a lot more stable and only needs very little steerage, the wind does all the job /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

[ QUOTE ]

I often felt it might be useful (copy from above) especially when it is a bit windy: when I motor near the marina and need those 5/10 minutes to put fenders on, prepare mooring lines, put mainsail cover, wait for the ferry to come out of the port, etc, with the engine in forward it need quite a bit of power to keep the boat on course so one must really hurry and change course, whereas in rear gear at idle the wind would do most of the work in keeping the boat stable and the pilot would simply steer it very lightly

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Prepare mooring lines well in advance, flip fenders inboard.. DONT put sailcover on, you might NEED the sail one day..
I really cannot see a problem, once prepared WELL in advance maybe 30 seconds to set....

Like in achieving a good paint finish.. its all in the preperation..

Same as if anchoring, which I beleive you referred to in the first post.. dont stow it until well clear, again, you might need it.. if anchoring you have no fenders... once the achor is up slip a chain hook or loop onto it thats already secured, get back and pilot the boat.. when well clear of problems, sort it out. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

Ehm, seems simple to answer from quieter waters, but: why not plan and act ahead? Set the fenders and the mooring ropes BEFORE You enter the critical zone? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

[ QUOTE ]
from quieter waters

[/ QUOTE ]

not sure that applies to the Med /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
(ciao gianenrico)

yes of course preparing in advance is what I normally do, but it spoils the subtle pleasure of arriving in front of the port at the helm, under sail up to the very last second /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

obviously the backward pilot is nothing essential, rather a "nice to have" feature if it was feasible with very little effort... guess I'll try once swapping cables to see what happens, otherwise back to preparing things two miles in advance /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: Why on earth would you ant to do it in the first place ??

Relying on an autohelm to allow the boat to weathercock whilst maintaining steerage in astern will involve unacceptable risks.

Single handing is all about preparation and allowing treble the time it would take with two. Most of my tasks are done with plenty of sea room and adapted for speed. I have 4 dock lines made up with spliced eyes which drop over the cleats both sides and led to the cockpit. (Mid cleats often used with an extra couple of lines) Fenders tied to life lines and laid on deck all done on distant approach. They can then be dropped over when required. Autopilot or even lashed tiller looking after helm in usual mode of operation. Sail stacking is done whilst hove to.

On departure my priority is to gain safe sea room. Hooking up fenders and grabbing lines involves one circuit of the deck when safe to do so. I have a chain hook on a warp which allows me to secure the anchor 'stock awash' until safe to stow properly, added benefit is the anchor comes on deck clean.

I does not look pretty but it works!

Whilst I appreciate this means more engine time on approach and departure the thought of letting my boat attempt to steer itself in astern is a non starter. I can't even do it predictably when helming.
 
As many people have said, the boat will weathercock quite happily in low revs astern.
So why do you need the pilot?
Just lock the wheel amidships, apply low revs astern and you know what your boat will do, go backwards within about 10 degrees of into the wind. Even if the lock fails, if the revs are low enough it won't circle, just start lying at more of an angle, probably with minimum speed over the ground.
 
Can none of you guys recognise a troll when you see one? This plonker is proposing to reverse in crowded waters with rocks about using the autopilot while standing on the bow making his ropes tidy! And you take him seriously???

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I know Roberto isince two years, he is a nice chap, real person, AKA Rob in PBO, moderator of an italian sail forum and often poses questions not yet heard of, for the sake of further investigation. IMHO this is not the profile of a troll.
The specific question may be held by some obnoxious, but still encourages us to better understand how our equipment works.
Cheers
 
Whilst I agree that the forces of the water acting on the rudder would be too great unless moving astern very slowly, I think Roberto would find that without any reversal of the control action, the automatic steering would actually move the rudder in the correct direction to maintain a straight course in astern. Why not try it when you are in open water Roberto?

As to the advisability of adopting the practice in the confined waters of your home channel, it is clear that many contributors to this thread would not be in favour.
 
No John, the rudder action needs reversed. I just tried it out with a model. If the bows are diverted to port of set course when going ahead, then starboard rudder is applied. If going astern and the line of progress alters in the same way (bows to port or stern to starboard) then port helm is required.

As I said, I cannot understand why so many are continuing to try to explain this to Roberto, who argues with anything that is said. The chart shows an area where any sensible person would want to be in full control. He argues that at low speed, the forces on the rudder would be low. Well that is just not true. I do not go astern any further than I need if I can help it. I do so only at low speed. Even with the semi-balanced rudder on a Renown, the forces are very high if you let the rudder get more than a few degrees off-centre. On my last boat (tiller steered), when on a pier or mooring, even a strong tide from astern pushed the rudder right over and produced such force that the children or my wife were unable to bring it straight again.

Goodness knows why I am wasting my time on this thread. I suppose we all tend to get sucked into a discusion despite ourselves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top