Autohelm / Raymarine wheel / linear drive compatibility

[yoda]

OK, at the moment I have a fully working Autohelm 4000 wheel pilot system. It does however lack power at times and I would eventually like to move to a linear drive system. I already have an ST6000 control head, raymarine compass and linear feedback arm which can be fitted as and when required.

The control head is not in a great position and while I can put up with the lack of power in the drive for the moment, I would like to change to the ST6000 control head sooner rather than later.

The question I have is 'will an SPX 10 or SPX 30 computer drive the old 4000 wheel drive unit ?'

Thanks

Yoda

 

[cmedsailor]

Either you are mixing things or i am confused. So, here we go:
There are basically 3 units either for a wheel pilot or below deck pilot. Control head (eg ST4000), the drive unit (linear drive or the 'wheel') and the course computer. The old 4000 does not have a separate computer because this is incorporated in the control head. You can use the X5 wheel with your st4000 control head but cannot use the SPX5 computer. To do this you need to get the new control head.
A type1 linear drive unit needs a control head (ST 6000 for instance) and the SPX10 computer to work.

 

[Tranona]

Think so. The 4000 drive is essentially the same as the SPX . Why not just phone Raymarine and ask. They are very helpful.

 

[yoda]

Think so. The 4000 drive is essentially the same as the SPX . Why not just phone Raymarine and ask. They are very helpful.

Never seem to be able to get through! Thanks anyway, confirms what I have just seen on the Raymarine Forum.

Yoda

 

[Biscay 36]

My ST4000+ control head has died and I am searching for a replacement so if you do replace it with the ST600 I would be pleased to buy your old control head.

 

[yoda]

My ST4000+ control head has died and I am searching for a replacement so if you do replace it with the ST600 I would be pleased to buy your old control head.

OK, thanks for the offer. May be a few months away yet as money has run out for the 'nice to have' items while I get the necessities sorted.

Yoda

 

[knuterikt]

OK, at the moment I have a fully working Autohelm 4000 wheel pilot system. It does however lack power at times and I would eventually like to move to a linear drive system. I already have an ST6000 control head, raymarine compass and linear feedback arm which can be fitted as and when required.

The control head is not in a great position and while I can put up with the lack of power in the drive for the moment, I would like to change to the ST6000 control head sooner rather than later.

We have been through a upgrade sequence on our boat..
-First the old drive unit for the Autohelm 4000 died (start of season...).
-Replaced by a SPX-5 drive unit.
-Then the control head for the Autohelm 4000 died.
-Replaced with a Coursemaster CM85i, kept the SPX-5 drive unit, installed a rudder sensor. (plan was to upgrade to linear drive at a latter stage)
-We are now in the middle of replacing the wheel drive unit with a linear drive from Jefa http://jefa.com/ (The clutch on the wheel drive have started to auto release..)

The question I have is 'will an SPX 10 or SPX 30 computer drive the old 4000 wheel drive unit ?'

Yes - the computer don't know what kind of drive unit is supplies with power (the computer must be capable to deliver sufficient Amp's to the drive unit)
You will probably have to add a rudder sensor, if I'm remembering correct it's only the SPX-5 that operate w/o rudder sensor (a rudder sensor give feedback to the AP improving performance)

 

[buttons]

Your lack of power may be the small gearbox seizing up. I have just taken my unit apart and the gears were covered in very old solid grease and some rusty water. It is a simple if slightly scary job to strip and clean the gears. It worked fine after I put it back together. You can also get replacement drive belts on e-bay.

 

[knuterikt]

Your lack of power may be the small gearbox seizing up. I have just taken my unit apart and the gears were covered in very old solid grease and some rusty water. It is a simple if slightly scary job to strip and clean the gears. It worked fine after I put it back together. You can also get replacement drive belts on e-bay.

If you are referring to my case - the problem is that the wheel drive is undersized for the boat.
The drive run OK but the clutch has started to disengage at it's own will.. don't know if this is due to overloading or something else - will have a look at it and try to fix -maybe it has got a resale value.

The new linear drive is already installed together with a new tiller arm, the electrical connections (power and clutch) remains. Have plenty of time to complete - launch date is still months away..

 

[prv]

Yes - the computer don't know what kind of drive unit is supplies with power (the computer must be capable to deliver sufficient Amp's to the drive unit)

Our new boat has a wheel pilot, I think SPX5. It does have the optional rudder sensor installed. I don't like the rattly Heath-Robinson device bolted to the wheel, though, and would much rather have a proper below-decks drive. Officially the SPX5 computer can't drive a linear drive, but I think this is only because it doesn't have a clutch output.

Any reason I shouldn't fit a linear drive and use a separate switch to energise the clutch? Seems no different from the computer's point of view to the manual clutch lever on the wheel drive.

Pete

 

[knuterikt]

Our new boat has a wheel pilot, I think SPX5. It does have the optional rudder sensor installed. I don't like the rattly Heath-Robinson device bolted to the wheel, though, and would much rather have a proper below-decks drive. Officially the SPX5 computer can't drive a linear drive, but I think this is only because it doesn't have a clutch output.

Any reason I shouldn't fit a linear drive and use a separate switch to energise the clutch? Seems no different from the computer's point of view to the manual clutch lever on the wheel drive.

Pete

According to the SPX-5 doc the drive motor output is Continuous 5 A at nominal 12 V, linear drives consume more than this.
Theoretically you could solve this using a relay, but i don't know how good this would work.

You could try to contact Jefa http://www.jefa.com/ and ask them for advice.

Info from this page http://www.jefa.com/steering/products/drives/linear.htm

Autopilot junction box 12 Volt version. Max. output (Amp.) Rudder torque (KgM)
Raymarine X-10 (*1) 10 100
Raymarine X-30 30 100

*1: We strongly advise to not use the standard X10 autopilot as it delivered without rudder feedback unit. Without rudder feedback unit the autopilot is not aware of actual rudder angle. In very slow speed conditions or in conditions of a stalling rudder blade, the autopilot doesn't stop with powering the drive unit, running it against the rudder stops and still continuing to power the drive. In time the drive fuse will blow, but mechanical damage can occur in the drive unit which will not be covered under our warranty terms as we can identify this specific damage. We strongly advise only to use the X10 unit in combination with the optional rudder feedback unit or use the X30 unit.

 

[prv]

According to the SPX-5 doc the drive motor output is Continuous 5 A at nominal 12 V, linear drives consume more than this.

Good point about the power output. I do note that the Raymarine Type 1 apparently consumes 18 - 36 watts, ie up to 3 amps. But maybe that's an average and peak currents are higher?

You could try to contact Jefa http://www.jefa.com/ and ask them for advice.

The Jefa stuff looks very good, but I think I could buy a whole new Raymarine setup for the price of one of their drive units! So I won't be going with them.

Pete

 

[ianj99]

According to the SPX-5 doc the drive motor output is Continuous 5 A at nominal 12 V, linear drives consume more than this.
Theoretically you could solve this using a relay, but i don't know how good this would work.

You can in theory do it with 2 relays and a couple of 1amp diodes because the polarity of the motor supply is reversed depending whether the drive is extending or retracting. One relay controls the direction and the other turns the motor on. Alternatively, you need an H bridge circuit using mosfets or a mosfet module.

In fact I've had this lack of drive current issue with my St4000+ head unit because I wanted it to drive the pump on my Cetrek hydraulic steering. In the end I interfaced the ST4000 to the Cetrek's motor drive circuit through a changeover switch which means the Cetrek AP has had to remain connected. However it does mean I have a backup autopilot at the flick of a switch.

 

[knuterikt]

Good point about the power output. I do note that the Raymarine Type 1 apparently consumes 18 - 36 watts, ie up to 3 amps. But maybe that's an average and peak currents are higher?

Probably higher peak load - would be annoying (at least) to blow the fuse in a squall.

The Jefa stuff looks very good, but I think I could buy a whole new Raymarine setup for the price of one of their drive units! So I won't be going with them.
Pete

Most (all) linear drives seems to work the same way.

 

[heaven]

Can you help me for do a relay interface between st4000 and a linear drive type 1?

 

[jwilson]

snipped - the clutch has started to disengage at it's own will.. don't know if this is due to overloading or something else - will have a look at it and try to fix

Almost everyone who has these wheel drives has this problem. Most address it with a bit of bungee cord to hold the lever engaged. I don't like that solution.

If you dismantle the big ring part fully, thoroughly clean everything, check the only two parts that really wear much, the small gearwheel that fits on the motor shaft and the drive belt itself, these are obtianable as spares. If you then reassemble it and adjust correctly it will probably work again as well as these ever do for a year or two. See a83004_2 (ganssle.com)

My only other comment is that whilst Raymarine say to use no lubrication at all, I find a trace of McLube (NOT OIL) on the insides of the little whitish plastic sleeves that go over the two black plastic drive and adjustercylinders helps it to work well for longer.

 

[ithet]

This is resurrection of eight year old thread for unrelated issue - new post at #15.

But to answer - an ST4000 cannot be used with a Linear Drive as (1) it has no clutch output and (2) could not provide enough power.

 

[ianj99]

An ST4000+ would be able to as it has clutch and motor connections. (tiller pilot)

 

[jwilson]

Sorry - didn't spot the OP date !