Audio on sailing videos

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Buckingham
www.keepturningleft.co.uk
One of the responses to the other thread about the broads film from whipper snapper got me thinking about the use of audio on sailing films and would love to hear what you have to say.

Clearly wind noise is a problem - so the easy way out is to smear music all over the shots. Youtube is full of those - some of them are wonderful - some are less wonderful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGupz_9mGc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrmqcYe1RM8


also the right music can help to bind a series of shots together -

but what is the right music is obviously subjective - but if its music you hate...well then you are never going to like the films.

try opening two youtube windows and playing the audio from the kite film over the antigua one.

in some places music works really well - but sometimes, as a sailor, you want to hear the sounds of the sailing.

But even if you win against the wind noise there is no microphone that can ever "hear" the world the way a human ear can. The human ear and brain can edit frequencies to concentrate on one part of the soundscape.

I have tried mixing sailing shots with and without music

no music beating up the nene - tide underneath us

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/scuttlebutt/scuttlebutt-108-beating-up-the-nene/

music -again beating - but up the low tide channel at Iken Cliff - allowing some of the sailing sounds to intrude on the music.

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/scuttlebutt/scuttlebutt-66-troublesome-reach/


the other thing is that people will be listening to the audio mix on all sorts of different bits of equipment from laptop speakers to full hi-fi. In the last film the balance of the sailing and the music will be different on a decent speaker to the way it might sound on a rubbish one

mixing audio that will work on all systems pretty tough - actually its well beyond my abilities

I quite like a reasonable dynamic range when watching a TV prog

I like quiet moments and I like noisier ones - I like those in the films because that is what sailing is like

I mix the audio for the films on £80 desptop speakers in a room with a reasonable accoustic

On the other hand listening to material that has been compressed so that it works on the average £15 set of desktop speakers - or even worse laptop speakers might sound a bit in your face on good kit.


As Whipper snapper said, the bit in the last film where I talked about a mud weight had low audio on it -

he is dead right - and it was low - I can hear it okay on my speakers and I also know what I am going to say

- but I listened to it on my laptop and it did sound pretty horrible - and hard work to boot.

So, if you are interested in offering some feedback

love to know your thoughts on music in sailing films

and maybe examples of where it has been used well


and also - how do you listen to web films
.. laptop, £15 speakers, a hifi, headphones - your responses will certainly help me to refine the audio mixes on KTL

Dylan
 
Don't object to music, but I like to hear the surroundings as well, either instead of music or just audible behind it.

One issue ("complaint" is bit strong) I do have is the difference in volume between your voiceovers recorded at the time and ones (I presume) recorded at home later. The former are usually much quieter, and I have to turn up the volume to hear them. Then I disturb my housemates when microphone-at-home-Dylan suddenly comes blaring from the speakers.

I listen usually on an older Macbook on my desk, sometimes with generic ear-cup headphones if it's late.

Pete
 
difference

prv said:
Don't object to music, but I like to hear the surroundings as well, either instead of music or just audible behind it.

One issue ("complaint" is bit strong) I do have is the difference in volume between your voiceovers recorded at the time and ones (I presume) recorded at home later. The former are usually much quieter, and I have to turn up the volume to hear them. Then I disturb my housemates when microphone-at-home-Dylan suddenly comes blaring from the speakers.

I listen usually on an older Macbook on my desk, sometimes with generic ear-cup headphones if it's late.

Pete
Click to expand...

what speakers is the laptop attached to?

do you suffer as badly with the headphones as you do with the laptop speakers?

its my guess that in the headphones you can turn the volume lower than on the laptop speakers.

Dylan
 
It's all about the atmosphere for me. Sometimes that means music and sometimes sails flapping etc...

I really like that piano piece: it really suited the moody bits where you were beating into the sunlight.

But then Last Man Standing by Cities of Foam works perfectly for a sunny, soaring spirits sort of a day.

What kind of permission/fees etc do you need to arrange to be able to use someone's music?


Jon
 
Depends on the type of 'music' 99% of the stuff produced in the last 30 years is noise intended to keep the chavs distracted while they toil away
 
you ask them

Little Rascal said:
It's all about the atmosphere for me. Sometimes that means music and sometimes sails flapping etc...

I really like that piano piece: it really suited the moody bits where you were beating into the sunlight.

But then Last Man Standing by Cities of Foam works perfectly for a sunny, soaring spirits sort of a day.

What kind of permission/fees etc do you need to arrange to be able to use someone's music?


Jon
Click to expand...

the paino music is bought in music - I bought a library of about 120 bits of music - I can use any of it up to 50,000 times - the whole library cost me about $200

Cities of Foam is the band of a BBC radio engineer - he sent me a link, I asked if I could use it in return for a link and for spreading the word - and here we are spreading the word about cities of foam

http://www.citiesoffoam.com/


- but if you want to use something from some-one big on you tube then sometimes they will kill the audio track and sometimes they will just put an ituines advert across the bottom - which seems like a sensible thing to do.

But on KTL all the music is either bought cheap

or begged - the old dance school -

http://www.theolddanceschool.com/


the leader of the band is a sailor and likes my videos

ditto Celtic Nots

http://www.celticnots.com/

one of them is an american small boat sailor who likes the films


and gypsy reel too

http://www.gypsyreel.com/


Dylan
 
You will not get a coherent reply on this subject.

Choose what you like and then leave us to use the off button if we don't like it.

Personally, I am quite happy with your choices. I know how hard it is to sync a soundtrack to make it enhance the audio. You cannot afford to do that more an one time, so go with your own feelings. The people that like your films probably like your music choices. If the don't then s*d them.

I listen on laptop, Mac, iPad, iPhone and over my TV's speakers.

If you want to take the trouble to optimise for all of those then go for it. What you do now seems to work ok as far as I can see and hear.
 
I agree

Little Rascal said:
Well it's working! I like them... And the Celtic Nots...

There are lots of little bands out ther making 'real' music... just a question of finding them :)


Jon
Click to expand...

for me the celtic music works with boats because those insstruments were small enough to be taken on boats and lots of the music came from sailing communities - there is much more to sea msuic than finger in ear shanties or the sky boat song

the old dance school music - all modern - but with deep traditional roots

Dylan
 
SolentBoy said:
You will not get a coherent reply on this subject.

Choose what you like and then leave us to use the off button if we don't like it.

Personally, I am quite happy with your choices. I know how hard it is to sync a soundtrack to make it enhance the audio. You cannot afford to do that more an one time, so go with your own feelings. The people that like your films probably like your music choices. If the don't then s*d them.

I listen on laptop, Mac, iPad, iPhone and over my TV's speakers.

If you want to take the trouble to optimise for all of those then go for it. What you do now seems to work ok as far as I can see and hear.
Click to expand...

I can really only mix them for the way I listen to them

not to say that I often spot some pretty lumpy bits and some pretty terrible fades - but by the time they get to your desktop they are probably on their fourth or fifth compression or format change.

A small tweak on my desktop can end up as a big bump on yours

However, never have the courage to go back and re-do stuff - would not know where to stop


Dylan
 
Last edited:
It is a very subjective thing, but for me sound is extremely important. Really bad, muddy, or scratchy sound will make me turn off a video in a flash. But other than that, and a mild hypersensitivity to levels ;), I could not say what 'sort' of sound I like.


I admit to liking this which I did myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNcTi5aGxk

I think the sound track lifts a really mediocre video, and I can't take any credit for that. A professional video producer who happens to live in my house, took one look and suggested that track. She was dead right. I dropped it to allow water and wind sounds through on a couple of occasions. And I did make some effort to level everything. But it was a very quick and dirty bodged edit.

I can't say which of your two beats I prefer, they are both very nice and quite different because of the sound. The one without music is only nice because your voice and the water sounds are very good quality sound, that would be impossible if conditions were any livelier!
 
Last edited:
very nice

whipper_snapper said:
It is a very subjective thing, but for me sound is extremely important. Really bad, muddy, or scratchy sound will make me turn off a video in a flash. But other than that, and a mild hypersensitivity to levels ;), I could not say what 'sort' of sound I like.


I admit to liking this which I did myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWNcTi5aGxk

I think the sound track lifts a really mediocre video, and I can't take any credit for that. A professional video producer who happens to live in my house, took one look and suggested that track. She was dead right. I dropped it to allow water and wind sounds through on a couple of occasions. And I did make some effort to level everything. But it was a very quick and dirty bodged edit.

I can't say which of your two beats I prefer, they are both very nice and quite different because of the sound. The one without music is only nice because your voice and the water sounds are very good quality sound, that would be impossible if conditions were any livelier!
Click to expand...

never sailed in warm water, only once been on a cat, never sailed at over seven knots.

it must be an amazing experience to travel so far and so fast

who owns the boat now?

Dylan
 
I mentioned as well that it would be good to hear the water on the bow....but having watched a couple more of your films, including the Broads one today, I rather liked the music!

You can't win.
 
dylanwinter said:
looks like a funky place to sail

not entirely unlike the wash

Dylan
Click to expand...

Yes its fun. It is tucked in there while the S monsoon blows 35Kn plus. miles and miles of mangrove swamp with lots of very shallow and totally uncharted bars and banks. On the other hand, you can get out and push without freezing your nads off.

2010-12-28180736.jpg
 
very good

flaming said:
I prefer music.

This is my one effort to date.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4B-MQTPDNE
Click to expand...

really makes me miss my eboat

-although I have to say I was a crazy man when I owned it

always in a rush to get somewhere slightly faster than the other blokes

now I have no idea why it seemed so important to me

but a bit of speed every now and again would be wonderful

Dylan
 
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