attaching flag or burgee

bobgosling

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I have noticed that flags and burgees ( at least the quality ones ) come with a toggle at the top and a short tail of line at the bottom.

How are you supposed to attach this to the flag halyard ?

I have adopted the solution of tying a small loop in the halyard via a figure-8 knot and pushing the toggle through that. The "tail" is then attached with a rolling hitch.

Am I doing it correctly ?
 

sarabande

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Another solution, sew a permanent loop at the top of the flag halyard, and a toggle at the lower end. When the halyard is not in use insert Toggle A into Loop B, et voila.....
 

johnalison

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I'm a bit puzzled by the rolling-hitch; usually for tying a line to a spar or similar. I use a bowline from the halyard onto another on the flag, though a common bend would be neater.

The trouble with toggles is that they are all sizes and when changing countries one has to adjust the loop. What we need is a standard Eurotoggle and we would know that the beaurocrats were doing something useful for once.
 

VicS

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Just tie it on with what ever knots take your fancy!

FWIW I think I have a loop made with bowline for the toggle an i tie the bottom end with a double sheet bend

Other wise pick a couple from here
 

john_morris_uk

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[ QUOTE ]
Just tie it on with what ever knots take your fancy!

FWIW I think I have a loop made with bowline for the toggle an i tie the bottom end with a double sheet bend

Other wise pick a couple from here

[/ QUOTE ]That's EXACTLY the way we put oput burgee up. How spooky is that? - Actually not very spooky as its a sensible and seamanlike way to do it - at least that is what I will maintain...
 

l'escargot

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just tie it on with what ever knots take your fancy!

FWIW I think I have a loop made with bowline for the toggle an i tie the bottom end with a double sheet bend

Other wise pick a couple from here

[/ QUOTE ]That's EXACTLY the way we put oput burgee up. How spooky is that? - Actually not very spooky as its a sensible and seamanlike way to do it - at least that is what I will maintain...

[/ QUOTE ]
Likewise.
 

shmoo

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[ QUOTE ]
Just tie it on with what ever knots take your fancy!



FWIW I think I have a loop made with bowline for the toggle an i tie the bottom end with a double sheet bend

[/ QUOTE ]

This post is meant to be a serious contribution to the discussion. It’s not intended to diss anyone's opinion or practices. Please don't flame me!

Certainly what's mentioned in the quote above will work and lots of folk do just this.

But picture this scene: you are closing on a foreign port and you need to perform the little ballet of taking the burgee off the right crosstree halyard and replacing it with the courtesy flag and then running the burgee up the left crosstree halyard. If you ever have less than fully experienced crew/guests on the boat you will find the tail tied on with exactly "whatever knots they fancy". Unpicking jammed weird knots in wet 3mm line with one hand is not easy. Before long the halyard is blowing in the wind and someone is "air fishing" for it with the boat hook. This is how crew fall off boats.

In my book "seamanlike" means simple, consistent and safe. Go for clips and leave knots in small braided line on the decorative knots board.
 

VicS

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[ QUOTE ]
use inglefield swivel clips

[/ QUOTE ] You can't uncouple and recouple inglefield clips with one had any more than you can push a toggle through an eye and do up a sheet bend with one hand so in hazardous conditions it a job best left until it can be done safely.
 

john_morris_uk

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[ QUOTE ]
In my book "seamanlike" means simple, consistent and safe. Go for clips and leave knots in small braided line on the decorative knots board.

[/ QUOTE ] We will have to agree to differ. Inglefield clips are pretty good - but they can also take your eye out in the sizes we use at work. If you want to use them that's fine. Where we will disagree is that I think my bowline for the toggle and double sheetbeand on the bottom loop is just as seamanlike.

Of course I might get round to putting a toggle on the halyard, and then I can toggle top and bottom of the burgee.
 

VicS

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[ QUOTE ]
Of course I might get round to putting a toggle on the halyard, and then I can toggle top and bottom of the burgee

[/ QUOTE ] And if you put loops in the tails of all the flags and burgees it becomes a simple matter to string several together when required.

How are signal flags strung together?
 

john_morris_uk

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course I might get round to putting a toggle on the halyard, and then I can toggle top and bottom of the burgee

[/ QUOTE ] And if you put loops in the tails of all the flags and burgees it becomes a simple matter to string several together when required.

How are signal flags strung together?

[/ QUOTE ]Umm - not like that! On a pussers grey the flags are laced together using their inglefield clips.

If you put a row of loops, you couldn't be sure that the correct distance was maintained to ensure that the flags flew correctly and that would never do!

If you want the inside knowledge: on a warship, the upperdeck signal hands often leave the common signals strung together in their storage so that they can be ultra quick on the hoist when the signal is called for.
 

franky

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I am most interested in your suggestion of a "Eurotoggle". Do you think we could get a grant to conduct an in depth pan-european survey to confirm the need for such a device?
 
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