Attaching boom to mast - FoxCub 18

[onemanorthree]

HI,

Recently got a foxcub 18 to mess about on a lake and during the disasembley of the boom/mast fro trasnportation, I forgot to take pics of the setup.

From what I remeber, I slide the backplate with the look in it into the mast, loop up, then use this butterfly nut (not sure what it's called) through that hold
in the mast attachment and into the threded hole in the back plate. Is this correct?

Also, are there names for these? I'd like to get spares, as you can see, mine are a little wrecked looking.






TIA

 

[VicS]

ITYWF the item in the third picture is called a thumb screw, wing screw or butterfly wing screw. I guess its purpose is the lock the sliding gooseneck fitting in position in the mast track.
Id expect it to be below the boom

The plate with a loop ( dunno what that is called ) for attaching the tack corner of the sail if its above the boom but more likely it will be below the boom and for a down-haul (to tension the luff)

Maybe someone with a Foxcub will know better. I don't now know anyone with a Foxcub. I did, but that was over 40 years ago !

Excellent small boat

 

[Dellquay13]

HI,

Recently got a foxcub 18 to mess about on a lake and during the disasembley of the boom/mast fro trasnportation, I forgot to take pics of the setup.

From what I remeber, I slide the backplate with the look in it into the mast, loop up, then use this butterfly nut (not sure what it's called) through that hold
in the mast attachment and into the threded hole in the back plate. Is this correct?

Also, are there names for these? I'd like to get spares, as you can see, mine are a little wrecked looking.

View attachment 178343

View attachment 178344
View attachment 178345

TIA

It would help if you could find the make of mast (and boom).
Copland built my Foxhound 24 with a Proctor mast and boom, but it has a very different set up to yours, which could be closer to a dinghy mast than a yacht at 18’

 

[B27]

The 'thumb screw' looks knackered.
The 'gooseneck' (mast/boom UJ) needs to be locked in place on the mast.
This is old fashioned dinghy tech, maybe slightly oversized, there are many variations of locking the gooseneck, but it usually needs to be fixed in both directions because the sail will pull it up, but the kicking strap forces it down.
You could probably improvise a clamp with a bolt and normal wingnut.
The forces can be quite a lot in breeze.
It's a Proctor fitting by the way!
Now part of Selden, but that was obsolete long before the take over/merger.

 

[onemanorthree]

Thanks. I don't think it's the original mast/boom. There is another Foxcub in the club, they have a different setup (pic below).

So I think you're saying that I should put that proctor fitting below the boom and find a clamp to go above?
Perhaps I can use a clam like this above? Or can I get a new goosenext fitting and attach it to the mast.?

And I don't put that thumbscrew through the hole in the mast attachment?





Other foxcub -
If anybody knows where I can get this fitting, I'm happy to buy it and fit it myself.

 

[B27]

The thumbscrew would go through the hole in the fitting circled, but should screw into a plate which clamps the fitting against the face of the mast. That way, the screw wouldn't bend like it has.
In the old days, my Dad would hoist the sail, the boom would go up above its normal position, then you'd pull the boom down and lock it with the screw, to set the luff tension for the day. Since about 1975, it's been more normal to have a fixed not sliding gooseneck.
The luff tension is set either by the halyard, or a downhaul/'cunningham eye' pulling the tack of the sail down.
The old way did work, but once people started fitting powerful kicking straps to hold the boom down downwind, the stress on that clamping screw got a bit high. Also, to be fair, fixing the boom for the measurement limit gets the most sail area within the rules for many classes.

Also a non-sliding gooseneck is a cheaper simpler fitting less likely to go wrong.

But there's no compelling reason not to use what you have, I'd just get a strip of ali to slide down the groove for the screw to go into, drill and tap it M5 or something and get a stainless 'butterfly screw' from ebay.

 

[onemanorthree]

In my pic above, where you can see the gooseneck inside the mast, is that hole the correct way up?


I spoke to the guy who helped me take it down. I think he said the mast was the other way around, with that hole on the bottom and
the threaded backplate (in the first post) was at the back of that, and the thumb screw screwed into the plate.

Also, when you say drill and tap it, do you mean put threads into the strip?

Can you recoment a where i can get a new gooseneck fitting that might fit that. Looked on ebay and amazon and cant find one.

 

[Dellquay13]

Can you recoment a where i can get a new gooseneck fitting that might fit that. Looked on ebay and amazon and cant find one.

Try visiting a chandlery with a good sailing and rigging section.
You can see and try different stuff together, and get inspiration for how to make things work that you will never get from Amazon.

Visit or phone your nearest rigging company, you never what obsolete or outdated stuff they may have in dusty corners

 

[William_H]

I think OP should stick with what he has. The system is OK if not the best. It enables great tension to be applied to the luff of the sail without the usual need for halyard on a winch. So as said haul the main sail up then set the tension by pushing down on the boom attached to the slider. You could fit a small tackle from the bottom of the slider to the deck to pull the boom down and hold it. The luff of the sail (tack) should be attached to the top of the slider. This in effect holds the boom up against forces of main sheet and vang. Yes a screw in lock would be good but as you can see there can be a load on the lock.
I prefer the fixed gooseneck as found on all bigger boats. You could just fix the slider in a suitable place with screws above and below. This does require extra effort to get halyard tension. A winch would be good but you can get tension on a halyard with a sweating up technique. Or sometimes you can fit a block on the end of the (external) halyard to give a 2 purchase.
Sweating up involves use of a horn cleat on the mast to fix the halyard. Take a half turn around the horn cleat after pulling sail up. Hold the tension against the bottom of the cleat using friction. Pull the halyard outwards so raising the sail a bit more. Then release the outward pull while pulling the now slightly slack halyard through the cleat. This should suffice for a Fox Moth. Use this technique for jib halayard.
I think you will have a lot of fun with this little boat. ol'will

 

[The Q]

In my pic above, where you can see the gooseneck inside the mast, is that hole the correct way up?


I spoke to the guy who helped me take it down. I think he said the mast was the other way around, with that hole on the bottom and
the threaded backplate (in the first post) was at the back of that, and the thumb screw screwed into the plate.

Also, when you say drill and tap it, do you mean put threads into the strip?

Can you recoment a where i can get a new gooseneck fitting that might fit that. Looked on ebay and amazon and cant find one.

Yes it is normal to have the hole with thumb screw in it below the boom, that's how it was on the many old Dinghies I've sailed. You'll need to get that thumb screw straightened or get a bolt of the right thread, and a bit of metal welded on to be able to turn it... Or carry a spanner.
That type of gooseneck fitting is unavailable, unless you can get a secondhand one somehow, I searched for one myself and couldn't get one without buying a complete secondhand mast.

I ended up buying a more modern gooseneck that should be riveted on the outside of a new mast which is a different shape, forcing it into the channel and riveting it into it's lowest position. Main leach tension now being adjusted just by the main halyard.

 

[onemanorthree]

A reamer would be ideal but finding one suitable

IDK what this is, sorry.

but should screw into a plate which clamps the fitting against the face of the mast. That way, the screw wouldn't bend like it has.
In the old days, my Dad would hoist the sail, the boom would go up above its normal position, then you'd pull the boom down a

Thanks

Yes it is normal to have the hole with thumb screw in it below the boom, that's how it was on the many old Dinghies I've sailed. You'll need to get that thumb screw straightened or get a bolt of the right thread, and a bit of metal welded on to be able to turn it... Or carry a spanner.
That type of gooseneck fitting is unavailable, unless you can get a secondhand one somehow, I searched for one myself and couldn't get one without buying a complete secondhand mast.

I managed to straighten it out and works fine, but will get another screw to fit it, not happy with the overall condition of it.

I ended up buying a more modern gooseneck that should be riveted on the outside of a new mast which is a different shape, forcing it into the channel and riveting it into it's lowest position. Main leach tension now being adjusted just by the main halyard.

OK, thanks. I will get a more modern one too and see if I can rivet it to the mast. I'll make a mold of the shape and bring it to some places, as suggested above.
I'm in Ireland, so we actually dont have many chandlery here, not in any reasonable distance, with a lot of stock knocking about.

 

[onemanorthree]

. Pull the halyard outwards so raising the sail a bit more. Then release the outward pull while pulling the now slightly slack halyard through the cleat. This should suffice for a Fox Moth. Use this technique for jib halayard.
I think you will have a lot of fun with this little boat. ol'will

Thanks. I understand some of what you say, but now all. I'll try to break it down and put it into practice.
Happy to fix it at the right position and us screws or strap clamps to stop it moving up and down.

I might keep the thread open and post pics of wider rig as I move to secure the boom, just in case there is anything I am doing wrong, or can do better.

I'll be up on Friday to fit it.

 

[alahol2]

There's a Facebook group for Fox Cub owners.

 

[onemanorthree]

There's a Facebook group for Fox Cub owners.

Thanks. Requested to Join, not super active but might be a help to me.

 

[onemanorthree]

So I tried to put the boom onto the back plate, and while it worked, the backplate loop didn't fit further down the mast, so gooseneck was too high.
So I'll just have to move the boom down further and clamp it to the mast with a strong jubilee clip and maybe put M4 wingnut bolds with a nut in the back to keep it from moving!

 

[onemanorthree]

Another issue I have it with the absence of a topping lift. The boom is quite low, so when not sailing I really need one.
I only have any extra steel cable, which is the right height, but I need some device to pull up when I want to put the lift on.




So instead of this purple rope, I was going to put a pully at the top and a rope with loops on it and maybe a small cleat on the end of the mast?
Not sure what my other options are.

 

[VicS]

Another issue I have it with the absence of a topping lift. The boom is quite low, so when not sailing I really need one.
I only have any extra steel cable, which is the right height, but I need some device to pull up when I want to put the lift on.


View attachment 178645

So instead of this purple rope, I was going to put a pully at the top and a rope with loops on it and maybe a small cleat on the end of the mast?
Not sure what my other options are.

My topping lift (19ft Seawych) is attached to the swiveling fitting on the boom end (presumably your mainsheet is attached to the other end of that fitting) it goes over a sheave at the top of the mast and down to cleat on the mast. You do not need a steel wire. Mine is, I think, only 4mm polyester.
The eye where you have the purple line shackled is where the clew would be laced unless you have an outhaul.

Your mast looks to be very raked aft. Is that normal for a Foxcub?

I think you need someone who knows how to rig a Foxcub properly to help you.

 

[onemanorthree]

Thanks.

Yes, it's over-raked, I intend to fix that next week.

The problem with the topping lift is that there is no line coming through the mast for a topping lift, so I have to make something work with the spare wire I have coming from the mast top.
I guess I'm asking if somebody has any ideas on something I can use instead, given what I have.

 

[oldbloke]

Attach a length of line to the backstay and use that. When not in use then just tie it of on the backstay. With a small boat like that where you can easily lift the boom end with one hand you don't need a halyard

 

[VicS]

Thanks.

Yes, it's over-raked, I intend to fix that next week.

The problem with the topping lift is that there is no line coming through the mast for a topping lift, so I have to make something work with the spare wire I have coming from the mast top.
I guess I'm asking if somebody has any ideas on something I can use instead, given what I have.

Perhaps you could attach a block to the masthead crane and run the topping lift through that or what Oldbloke suggests is the simplest solution . The Westerly I used to sail had a short wire, with a snap shackle on the end, crimped to the back stay that could be used to support the boom when not sailing but it had a topping lift as well.
I find a topping lift useful. I'd prefer not to be without one unless I had one of those fancy boom vangs that supports the boom when necessary.