Atalanta of Chester/Hanne Knutsen trial

[Angele]

ah - thanks

although TBH when we were out there we didn't want to get anywhere close to being in front of a ship ...

... I certainly won't be using the excuse "it is ok, we are ouside the AoC" as a reason for cutting up something the size of the Hanne Knutsen...

 

[l'escargot]

... I certainly won't be using the excuse "it is ok, we are ouside the AoC" as a reason for cutting up something the size of the Hanne Knutsen...

I bet you would if you thought it could get you a not guilty in court and avoid a large fine...

 

[Angele]

If you look at the video - 25 seconds in you can see the buildings of calshot lining up with the bow of the tanker and a cardinal mark.

I would assume that would be west bramble, which put the location of the camera just east of egypt point - west cowes .... so well inside the area of concern ... (and already past prince consort NC)

Well spotted that man. However, using my conveniently to hand copy of Reeds, drawing a straight line from the Calshot chimney (the power station itself isn't marked on the chartlet) through the W Bramble buoy suggests more like the Cowes Esplanade (or even East Cowes).

 

[Angele]

I bet you would if you thought it could get you a not guilty in court and avoid a large fine...

There are some times in life when you just have to fess up and take it like a man (or woman). I would like to think I would do the honourable thing.





... but you are probably right.

 

[fireball]

Well spotted that man. However, using my conveniently to hand copy of Reeds, drawing a straight line from the Calshot chimney (the power station itself isn't marked on the chartlet) through the W Bramble buoy suggests more like the Cowes Esplanade (or even East Cowes).

Looks more to be the buildings on the END of the spit ... ? Better get on that chain ferry back to WEST Cowes ...

 

[Sandy]

Very interesting see this in as "real time" as possible.

 

[Angele]

Looks more to be the buildings on the END of the spit ... ? Better get on that chain ferry back to WEST Cowes ...

... Although, at 1 minute + a bit we have an almost perfect transit between the power station chimney and the cardinal in the foreground.

If that is Gurnard NCM, we are in Cowes.
If that is Prince Consort, we are in E Cowes.

 

[l'escargot]

... Although, at 1 minute + a bit we have an almost perfect transit between the power station chimney and the cardinal in the foreground.

If that is Gurnard NCM, we are in Cowes.
If that is Prince Consort, we are in E Cowes.

It's Gurnard

 

[fireball]

Prince consort looks like this?

That's not the buoy in the video ..

I wouldn't expect too many spectators in east cowes either.

 

[colingr]

It's a close call between QHM and Southampton VTS according to this

 

[Angele]

It's Gurnard

... then "deep doodoos". Atlanta of Chester must have been inside the AoC when the collision occurred.

 

[Alan ashore]

Chapter and verse:
11.(1). In this byelaw -
"the Precautionary Area” means the main navigable channel which lies between an imaginary line drawn between Prince Consort and South Bramble Buoys and an imaginary line drawn between Black Jack and Hook Buoys;
"Moving Prohibited Zone’’ means an area extending 1000 metres ahead and 100 metres either side of any vessel of over 150 metres length overall while it is navigating within the Precautionary Area.

Now, I don't say that it's necessarily relevant to this case, but in general I'd suggest this thread highlights a deficiency in the definition. Clearly the MPZ does not come into existence until a westbound ship's bow nearly due North of Prince Consort, at which time the MPZ instantly appears, stretching 1km westward.

The powers that be have probably thought about this before and decided that retaining the simplicity of the current wording outweighs any need to fix this (?)

One approach might be for the "Moving Zone" to be defined at all times for vessels approaching the area, but it isn't always Prohibited. Any part of the Moving Zone lying within the Precautionary Area would be Prohibited, as well as the entire Moving Zone being Prohibited while the vessel is within the Precautionary Zone, as now.

 

[l'escargot]

It's a close call between QHM and Southampton VTS according to this...

No, he was nearer the western limit of VTS, more than a mile beyond the western limit of QHM.

 

[flaming]

... then "deep doodoos". Atlanta of Chester must have been inside the AoC when the collision occurred.

This bit was done to death at the time.

The interesting bit will be what his actual defense will be. Currently there's a bit of mud slinging going on by the defense, hoping something will stick, but we've not really heard the angle the defense will take. Don't forget that the jury is likely not to have a clue about boats, so confusing them with questions about GPS, and indicating that the traffic was heavy is just a defense tactic. The defense is probably trying to get the jury to have the image of a runaway lorry charging down a busy high street.

I said at the time that I've raced against that boat, and I was expecting them to take a "never saw it" defense due to the massive sea sweeping kite, but it doesn't sound like they are going that way.

 

[colingr]

No, he was nearer the western limit of VTS, more than a mile beyond the western limit of QHM.

He's stuffed then as he cannot use the 10 knot accusation and is almost certainly foul of the AoC. I must admit I thought they were further East but it looks like I were wrong.

 

[fireball]

Short days ... 1000 to 1630 and a break for lunch!

 

[Angele]

Don't forget that the jury is likely not to have a clue about boats, so confusing them with questions about GPS, and indicating that the traffic was heavy is just a defense tactic.

Is this a jury trial?

It is taking place at a Magistrate's Court, so I assumed there wasn't one.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I bet you would if you thought it could get you a not guilty in court and avoid a large fine...

What are promotion prospects in the navy for people who get convicted of misnavigation, or whatever the charge is?

 

[flaming]

Is this a jury trial?

It is taking place at a Magistrate's Court, so I assumed there wasn't one.

Oh fair point, I'd missed that! Mind you, same could apply to magistrates!

 

[colingr]

What are promotion prospects in the navy for people who get convicted of misnavigation, or whatever the charge is?

I believe he's a former Royal Navy officer. Probably cos he sank a battleship in his previous career