At £1.50/litre for diesel does the industry have any future..?

[pt8]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water?

Quite agree. It will be the normal 'joe blogs' of this country that will be hit hardest, he is probably the mainstay of the boating industry; the one that is out there nearly every weekend.

Lots of those big boats in marinas never even move off their berths!

I see boating as becoming the preserve of the rich with 'joe blogs' being priced out of the market. Lets hope this is not so.

 

[Gludy]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

I will not ignore your post.

1. Those with petrol boats usually have small boats and that market , whilst still being hit hard because of option of low tax fuel has gone, will not be hit as hard as the larger cruising boats that always have diesel.

2. Secondly those with smaller diesel boats will have to take a drop in price because there is no longer as much economy over the petrol boats.

3. The reduced sales and use of any boats will shrink and already vert frgamneted market place with the result that availability of services will be reduced and possibly costs increased as the supply reduces to match the reduced demand.

So the fuel hike will in some way or other effect the entire UK boating market.

 

[ricky_s]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

What smaller diesel boats? My boat cost £25000 and it has a small 100HP outboard. As far as I can see a single engined diesel boat would have cost say £40000+. Twin engines start at say £60000.

If you can buy that sort of boat you can afford the diesel. If you can't then you are living well above your means.

 

[hlb]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

No. I doubt it will have much effect, on the amount I use my lawnmower. It does not go very far either.

 

[gjgm]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

I dont agree that the fuel hike will be the driver for all you suggest. I d be more concerned that an economic downturn combined with a the fuel hike would be a tough double whammy. But, fuel is always going up in price, and we always adjust. Sure, there is going to be a shock at first, and those who boat at the margins of their own economic viablility are most at risk. But boating IS more accessible today. 10-15 years ago, who had a boat? Now there are boaters who wouldnt have even considered a boat before. And there always will be new people coming in. There isnt one generalisation to make on the effects. I suspect someone will be buying a bigger boat, someone will be buying a smaller boat, someone will buy their first boat, and someone will give up. Just as its always been. Just as some are getting more affluent, and some will be getting less so.
And life will go on.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

[ QUOTE ]
As far as I can see a single engined diesel boat would have cost say £40000+. Twin engines start at say £60000.


[/ QUOTE ]

What about THESE ? OK not the last word in luxury and they won't be speedy but negotiate a bit of a discount and you'll be close to getting a new diesel engined boat for £25k

 

[ricky_s]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

Okay, so you buy an Arvor. Use it 100 hrs a year at say 20 litres an hour? So at £1 pl thats £2000. Not much over a year.

 

[Nautorius]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

Paul,

I agree that smaller diesels are going to see a larger drop than expected. They are just not selling well. This S23, 2004
with a Kad32 is now below £34,950 and a PX will be taken against it. The price difference of Petrol to Diesel was about £8-10k on a Sub £50k boat. Looks like it will soon be nearer to £4k! That means there is a price adjustment needed. I was aware of this, and corrected my boats price early this year, and now others seem to be following suit!

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ricky_s]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

This reminds me of the year 2K bug. Most people thought it would cause major problems, IT guys (like me) made a killing.

But come midnight, what happened? Nothing.

Think it is fear pushing down prices. Will settle down again after the big rise. Still, look on the bright side, I might be able upgrade to my next boat for a bargain price.

 

[DRH]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water?

Exactly what i am thinking!
I see several huge boats in Chichester that hardly ever go out (not all, but several) which are obviously 'toys' for the wealthy, so what happens to joe blogs boaters who get priced out of the hobby. I happen to like boating & the skills/challenges that go with it, so it's a big part of living rather than just a trinket to impress others now & again.

 

[oldgit]

Re: Which is more important the type of boat or being out on the water

"I dont agree that the fuel hike will be the driver for all you suggest. I d be more concerned that an economic downturn combined with a the fuel hike would be a tough double whammy. But, fuel is always going up in price, and we always adjust. Sure, there is going to be a shock at first, and those who boat at the margins of their own economic viablility are most at risk. But boating IS more accessible today. 10-15 years ago, who had a boat? Now there are boaters who wouldnt have even considered a boat before. And there always will be new people coming in. There isnt one generalisation to make on the effects. I suspect someone will be buying a bigger boat, someone will be buying a smaller boat, someone will buy their first boat, and someone will give up. Just as its always been. Just as some are getting more affluent, and some will be getting less so.
And life will go on."

A succinct and concise summing up of the situation.

Twenty years ago our river was full of MAB in "boatyards" ,it is now brimming with expensive white fibre glass,moored in marinas with gyms and shops attached.
A nice boat (new or secondhand)is probably more within the reach of joe public now than ever before in the entire history of pleasure boating..

Red or no Red.

 

[[2068]]

[ QUOTE ]
This comes up all the time. What about the Mobos (including me) with petrol engines? We still do trips and accept the fuel is going to cost a lot. For the amount of hours my boat is used in a year it is still not a lot to pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely.

Plenty of people start out with a boat that has a single 5.0L petrol, that maybe uses 9-10 gallons per hour.

So, they think about upgrading to something like an S28 or S34 with twin KAD32's, and they find their consumption will be ... wait for it ... about 10-12 gallons per hour. It's not going to put them off, is it? (compared to the other hideous costs).

I would say that the two classes of boat that won't look too clever post-red will be small diesel boats (e.g. 23ft), and much older boats.

dv.

 

[Gludy]

All I can say is that it is my opinion that those who think the huge rise in fuel price will not effect the market are simply guilty of wishful thinking.
You could oput up fuel 1000% ans use the same arguments.
The fact is that there is a lot of evidence out there already that smaller diesel boats V petrol boats are coming muc closer in price + a bigger loss for those with the diesel engines.
The argument that if you can afford a boat costing £x then you can afford the fuel (presumably at any price) misses the point - there is a point at which boating necomes such bad value that people choose to spend their mopney elsewhere.
The fuel hike will also discourage many from entering boating.

 

[[2068]]

but but but, many have already entered boating with a thirsty petrol!

 

[hlb]

There looks to be a few things going on here. Theres arguments from folk with small boats, which by there nature, go day sailing and return to base, with minimal nights out. Theres also arguments for bigger boats (which dont go anywhere anyway).

All the bigger boats that ar'nt going anywhere, were bought with the intention of doing so. When time, inclination allowes.

Personal. Many years spent regularly cruising 600 miles? Costs, between 12.5 p ltr, 28p ltr, overnight ? £2/£8. Thats been my norm, up to four or so years ago.

Now. 50/60 p LTr. Overnight £20. (I dont use marinas.) Plus the ever rising marina fees.

Reflection.

Forget the doubling in price, I already think that the costs are becoming stupid.

Evidence.

My boat has held, or increased it's value, each year from manufacture.

It has suddenly dropped, maybe 25%

Conclusion.

Shock, horror.

Proper cruising in a twin engined boat, is becoming untenable, or unacceptable. I'm not saying, I cant find the money to do it. I can. Can I afford a newer boat. Yes, but what does that gain. Slightly better fuel costs, less space for the same sized boat, and few benefits after parting with an extra £100 grand??

It all looks a bit silly.

Add into this, the £££ you were going to make over the next few years, aint going to happen.

That, or those houses you were going to sell for a fortune, aint going to happen either. Share prices. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Now, how much money are you really worth. I mean tomorrow. Forced sale. Thats your real value.

Try putting your house up for sale at the moment, never mind your boat . Result, zilch and I have four up for sale.

Anyone thinking that we are not already in deap resesion, are deluded, they just have not become aware yet.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

>>>
Plenty of people start out with a boat that has a single 5.0L petrol, that maybe uses 9-10 gallons per hour.
>>>

At the risk of being contentious, the above may be seen as an error, mistaking capital cost of the boat and running cost. I found this out with petrol outboard power, £2K for the boat and refit was fine but the £20 in petrol per day added up fast as a hole in normal disposable income.

The diesel issue will beocme similar. A couple of gallons per hout stooging up to Windsor meant a weekend away cost £20 in fuel, £5 in mooring and £10 in the swimming pool, with ices and otherwise eating + drinking on board under £50 for a family weekend's boating. Can afford twice per month quite happily. Suddenly, at the whim of an uncaring group with an anti private pleasure agenda, the family weekend will cost almost twice as much. Fun per unit cost becomes pretty much halved.

 

[pt8]

Quite agree. At the end of the day I wonder how many motor boats are bought on a marine mortgage and are 'owned' on paper only? If you're also paying a mortgage on one plus high marina mooring fees AND increased fuel then surely it will be on the very wealthy who can afford to run then in future, and they probably won't use them much any way.

I own my boat 'lock, stock and barrell' so can afford to pay higher fuel price for my diesel but what really, really bugs me is the fact that IT IS ALL TAX which is going straight into the Governments coffers. With me its a matter of principle not the affordability.

 

[Gludy]

Well hlb the time has arrived for us to actually agree with each other.

Costs for a reasonable size cruising boat are becoming untenable. Some will simply not be able to afford it, others will simply not do it because the marginal cost is not worth the benefit. Boat prices have already dropped and the boat market is very poor.

The housing market has ground to a halt - it is no longer possible to purchase a house for rent and have the rent cover the basic interest and other costs, Add to that that the CG tax has more than halved on selling the rented house and after the 1st April a fair few people will be shedding houses to make their capital gain and pay 18% tax. This will put a firm downward pressure on house prices.

The only real value of a house or a boat is the price it will sell for once reasonably advertised. Having had Tarquin not sell my Squadron for over 2 years, I stepped in with a real understanding of the market and sold it within two weeks.

Having now had to take legal action against yet another dealer, I am becoming almost jaundiced to accepting a bad service, broken contracts, super high costs for doing nothing etc. So I give in when the head of the marine trade federation gave his ‘Ratner’ style speech pointing out that the hike in fuel prices will make no difference and then promptly placed his company into receivership …… to me that is par for the course in the totally mad world of the marine industry.

I am sure that many will delude themselves into thinking that not much will change but that will not alter what is in front of peoples eyes now and that they still refuse to see. I am of course confident that every single boat show will be followed by headlines as to how well boats have sold – that seems to be something that happens regardless of facts.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We're all doomed

 

[Magnum]

Gludy I don't disagree with much of what you are saying.

But are you saying that the main 3 British manufacturers, who have all reported strong growth this year, are telling fibs?