VicS
Well-Known Member
The money might be better spent on an oil pressure gauge.
Assessing an old engine (Volvo MD11c),servicing advice,Emsworth/Shoreham.
- Thread starter FairweatherDave
- Start date
The money might be better spent on an oil pressure gauge.
Tam Lin
Well-Known Member
In addition to all the good advice so far I suggest that you start saving up for the day when something does go wrong with the engine! Then you will have to make the decision on whether to repair or replace. Either way it is going to cost you especially if you get someone else to do it for you. If the engine is still going strong when you sell the boat then you have a bit more money in the kitty for the next one!
FairweatherDave
Well-Known Member
Cheers Tam Lin! I followed your thread on older engines a little while back with interest
.
And thanks for the further contributions Vic et al. Re. the novice electical testing I am that novice. I could easily get up to speed if the boat was in front of me (with computer to hand) but when I get to the boat I seldom want to do maintenance. Any suggestions for a 12v system I could experiment on/build at home in comfort? (Apart from an old car)
.And thanks for the further contributions Vic et al. Re. the novice electical testing I am that novice. I could easily get up to speed if the boat was in front of me (with computer to hand) but when I get to the boat I seldom want to do maintenance. Any suggestions for a 12v system I could experiment on/build at home in comfort? (Apart from an old car)
drawp
Well-Known Member
After having an MD11C on my boat for 27 years, one bit of advice I would give is to periodically open the drain ports, one at the bottom of each cylinder block and one under the exhaust manifold, and check that water is flowing out. This can be done with the engine running but be careful as the water can be very hot! Scale can build up and restrict the water courses in the block and manifold.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
there's some good advice here with checks you can do yourself
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Enginefaults.aspx
the whole site is worth a read
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Enginefaults.aspx
the whole site is worth a read
UncleAlbert
Well-Known Member
Careful with the Drain Cock suggestion, they are likely to snap off !!!
My MD11C suffered a holed piston liner after 40 odd years so you could probably be at risk of that, but you will never know it till it happens. There are no warnings or indications, and no surveyor would have any idea either, unless his crystal ball or x ray vision was in perfect working order!!
Just do the main maintenance oil changes (cheap mineral oil, they never had GTX/synthetic when those were made) and filter changes (at end of season) and impeller (start of new season) atnernator belt as needed, keep it clean and the bilges dry (so that you can see if there are any leaks developing), and treat it as you would an ageing lady that still wants to work. Giving it a burst of 2,000 RPM every now and again is very unlikely to do anything adverse and will stop the bores glazing.
Definitely get the temp guage working. Only today on mine, it indicated that there was something not quite right, as the gauge needle it did not fluctuate as it usually does showing that the thermostat is always open). Upon checking the inlet strainer it was half clogged with weed limiting the inflow and causing the thermostat to remain open but still showing steamy vapour out of the exhaust beacuse of the smaller water flow. All good now.
My MD11C suffered a holed piston liner after 40 odd years so you could probably be at risk of that, but you will never know it till it happens. There are no warnings or indications, and no surveyor would have any idea either, unless his crystal ball or x ray vision was in perfect working order!!
Just do the main maintenance oil changes (cheap mineral oil, they never had GTX/synthetic when those were made) and filter changes (at end of season) and impeller (start of new season) atnernator belt as needed, keep it clean and the bilges dry (so that you can see if there are any leaks developing), and treat it as you would an ageing lady that still wants to work. Giving it a burst of 2,000 RPM every now and again is very unlikely to do anything adverse and will stop the bores glazing.
Definitely get the temp guage working. Only today on mine, it indicated that there was something not quite right, as the gauge needle it did not fluctuate as it usually does showing that the thermostat is always open). Upon checking the inlet strainer it was half clogged with weed limiting the inflow and causing the thermostat to remain open but still showing steamy vapour out of the exhaust beacuse of the smaller water flow. All good now.
FairweatherDave
Well-Known Member
These further posts are much appreciated. ghostlymoron's link is a direct hit on the subject. Brilliant. I know PBO is an empowering DIY forum but I find it interesting that no-one (almost ) has advocated getting a professional assessment, which makes me think they are only used once there is a problem the owner cannot cure. That is the position I have taken so far but given my lack of experience it is good to know my instincts are in tune with others. I am still interested in personal recommendations of pros around Emsworth or Shoreham by private message for when that day comes.........
) has advocated getting a professional assessment, which makes me think they are only used once there is a problem the owner cannot cure. That is the position I have taken so far but given my lack of experience it is good to know my instincts are in tune with others. I am still interested in personal recommendations of pros around Emsworth or Shoreham by private message for when that day comes.........tribblehunter
Active Member
Just to add to the thread (and this is from someone who knows those engines from experience)
The MD11C, MD2,MD17 and MD3 had a couple of little quirks in their cooling systems. The temperature gauge reads the Average temperature of the cylinders. Each cylinder has a feed into it from the exhaust manifold and the outlets from the cylinders combine together and flow past the temperature sensor out past the thermostat.
Also the thermostat housing is designed to bias pressure into the manifold but still allow flow to the exhaust elbow to cool the exhaust water.
The advice about a laser temperature gun is spot on. But read the temperature on each head (typically on core plugs. Front one on front head, rear one on rear head) and on each cylinder below the exhaust manifold.
There should be no more than about 10 degrees difference. (that is, 10 degrees between each core plug, and 10 degrees between each cylinder block).
If there is a large difference, the channels i the manifold may be restricted, or one even blocked.
A cycling temperature gauge can also indicate a possible problem (but sometimes the gauges cycle when the engine is running on light load). Always best to check with a laser temperature gun.
Brian
RR&i
FluskSok™
The MD11C, MD2,MD17 and MD3 had a couple of little quirks in their cooling systems. The temperature gauge reads the Average temperature of the cylinders. Each cylinder has a feed into it from the exhaust manifold and the outlets from the cylinders combine together and flow past the temperature sensor out past the thermostat.
Also the thermostat housing is designed to bias pressure into the manifold but still allow flow to the exhaust elbow to cool the exhaust water.
The advice about a laser temperature gun is spot on. But read the temperature on each head (typically on core plugs. Front one on front head, rear one on rear head) and on each cylinder below the exhaust manifold.
There should be no more than about 10 degrees difference. (that is, 10 degrees between each core plug, and 10 degrees between each cylinder block).
If there is a large difference, the channels i the manifold may be restricted, or one even blocked.
A cycling temperature gauge can also indicate a possible problem (but sometimes the gauges cycle when the engine is running on light load). Always best to check with a laser temperature gun.
Brian
RR&i
FluskSok™
Swanrad2
Well-Known Member
In our recent saga refurbing our MD11C (ongoing unfortunately) we called in an engineer when we had reached the limit of our abilities. He made some very basic suggestions about improving the fuel system and if that doesn't work it must be the governer which is worthwhile paying him to do. We are doing our 'homework' now and hoping it works, if not we will give the professional a shout - for what it is worth the only two things that seem to go wrong with the engines are the water system and the fuel system + servicing.
The highly recommended engineer basically told us to keep on top of these things and only bother him when there was something broken that we couldn't fix ourselves. I will take his advice (it saves me money!).
The highly recommended engineer basically told us to keep on top of these things and only bother him when there was something broken that we couldn't fix ourselves. I will take his advice (it saves me money!).
FairweatherDave
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the further replies. Swanrad2 (and Tam Lin) keep posting anything about engines, I read your stuff even though it only serves to keep my anxiety levels high.
re. the laser thermometer I have bought one due to this thread. Being brutally honest the challenge is to know where to point it! I've taken loads of readings having got the engine nice and warm but translating the written descriptions and looking at the workshop manual I still find it hard to be sure where to point. Any diagrams/piks with X marks the spot(s) would be great!! In the end I felt reasonably happy with my readings (ie the engine was warm enough to open the thermostat and circulate the antifreeze) but for diagnosing a blockage I think that would be a challenge for me. In the meantime the engine's own temp gauge is not showing anything alarming and the engine has been running fine (fingers crossed), so if it ain't broke I'm still leaving well alone.
re. the laser thermometer I have bought one due to this thread. Being brutally honest the challenge is to know where to point it! I've taken loads of readings having got the engine nice and warm but translating the written descriptions and looking at the workshop manual I still find it hard to be sure where to point. Any diagrams/piks with X marks the spot(s) would be great!! In the end I felt reasonably happy with my readings (ie the engine was warm enough to open the thermostat and circulate the antifreeze) but for diagnosing a blockage I think that would be a challenge for me. In the meantime the engine's own temp gauge is not showing anything alarming and the engine has been running fine (fingers crossed), so if it ain't broke I'm still leaving well alone.
Swanrad2
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the further replies. Swanrad2 (and Tam Lin) keep posting anything about engines, I read your stuff even though it only serves to keep my anxiety levels high.
re. the laser thermometer I have bought one due to this thread. Being brutally honest the challenge is to know where to point it! I've taken loads of readings having got the engine nice and warm but translating the written descriptions and looking at the workshop manual I still find it hard to be sure where to point. Any diagrams/piks with X marks the spot(s) would be great!! In the end I felt reasonably happy with my readings (ie the engine was warm enough to open the thermostat and circulate the antifreeze) but for diagnosing a blockage I think that would be a challenge for me. In the meantime the engine's own temp gauge is not showing anything alarming and the engine has been running fine (fingers crossed), so if it ain't broke I'm still leaving well alone.
I'd swap with you!
Tam Lin
Well-Known Member
I'd swap with you!
So would I!
Seriously though, where to point the thermometer. Someone with more knowledge is bound to come along and give a better answer but I would suggest pointing it at the front and back of the cylinder blocks. From what I remember from when mine were taken off the cooling channels run through there. If one of them is blocked then it should show up as an uneven temperature. As mine is still in bits I could take a photo when I am next there but that will be a little while as I am out of action for the moment.
DaveS
Well-Known Member
Not a direct reply to your question since engines differ, but a general comment on using an IR thermometer with a laser marker. You have to remember that the laser spot paints a much smaller area than the IR thermometer measures the average temperature of. Even though the instructions will give the effective measurement radius at different distances, and some have a diagram on the unit giving the same information, it's psychologically very difficult not to just consider the spot and ignore its surroundings. A conical laser beam with the same angle as the IR sensor, painting a circle, would be much better than a spot, but I've never seen a thermometer so equipped.
tribblehunter
Active Member
Old thread I know but just coming back to forums after a while away.
Snap On laser thermometer- multi points creating a circle.
Maplins dual beam- 2 beams which become one when distance from thermometer gives a 13mm circle.
PM me regarding where to point on MD11C. I will see what I can dig out.
http://www.flushsok.co.uk
Snap On laser thermometer- multi points creating a circle.
Maplins dual beam- 2 beams which become one when distance from thermometer gives a 13mm circle.
PM me regarding where to point on MD11C. I will see what I can dig out.
http://www.flushsok.co.uk
tribblehunter
Active Member
Agree with you there Vonasi.
Sometimes doing something when there isn't a problem is better than waiting till there is.
In my experience Injectors should be removed every 6 to 8 years no matter what the hours.
Nice to see someone keeping the old ones going. They don't build them to last these days!
Sometimes doing something when there isn't a problem is better than waiting till there is.
In my experience Injectors should be removed every 6 to 8 years no matter what the hours.
Nice to see someone keeping the old ones going. They don't build them to last these days!
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
I would have thought the injectors would be solid after 6 - 8 years. A lot of people do much less than 100 hrs per year so that interval would comply with the service recommendations. After a couple of years, the injectors should be relatively easy to take out, clean and replace.
Take off the exhaust elbow every year as well - they can become blocked so its worth it and also its good to exercise the bolts regularly.
Take off the exhaust elbow every year as well - they can become blocked so its worth it and also its good to exercise the bolts regularly.
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tribblehunter
Active Member
Good Point Ghostlymoron. But try explaining that to a paying customer!
IMHO It all depends on how well maintained the engine has been. And its environment.
Recently did one where the injectors had not been removed for around 12 years. But engine had been lovingly cared for and sprayed regularly with a maintenance spray. Came out no problem.
Compared to a 4 year old one years ago where the engine looked a good 10 years older. Head removal required.
+1 on the exhaust too. Mainly on the smaller engines i find. Larger ones more like every 4 to 6 years.
IMHO It all depends on how well maintained the engine has been. And its environment.
Recently did one where the injectors had not been removed for around 12 years. But engine had been lovingly cared for and sprayed regularly with a maintenance spray. Came out no problem.
Compared to a 4 year old one years ago where the engine looked a good 10 years older. Head removal required.
+1 on the exhaust too. Mainly on the smaller engines i find. Larger ones more like every 4 to 6 years.
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