assessing age of standing rigging

[syscode]

I am looking to buy a boat. It was refitted with new sails in 2019.
Unfortunately, the previous owner has passed away. The current owner inherited the boat and is unsure whether the sails replacement included new standing rigging.
I am yet to view the boat, hopefully in a week or so..
Assuming, as the seller says, there are no obvious signs of corrosion on the wires or their fittings -
Is there any way to tell whether the standing rigging is roughly 5 years old, or most likely far older..?
Cheers and thanks for any clues.

 

[Tranona]

No. The only way of knowing its age is documentary evidence of actual fitment. Almost equally difficult to determine its condition although inspection of all fittings and terminals should identify any obvious faults. Unlikely rigging was replaced with new sails, although possible. Maybe ask the sailmaker who made the sails. The difficulty with lack of documentary evidence is that your surveyor will be cautious and recommend a rig check, but riggers are reluctant to give acceptable written reports that will satisfy insurers. So be prepared to replace the standing rigging, at least the wires.

Just been through this and although the rigging looked fine, after I bought the boat I discovered particulars of the boat when it changed hands in 2011 which stated rigging was renewed in 2004, which explained the lack of any documentary evidence from the last 2 owners.

 

[[70521]]

You might find an invoice onboard.

 

[Caer Urfa]

A common problem in buying, putting my surveyors hat on there's a lot you can look at but sadly many time from only deck height, look particularly at the toggle arms swagged ends and terminals and you will also be surprised how many have split or cotter pins are found missing.
look to see if there are any broken wires where the shroud enters the terminal.
Also have a good look at that the chain plates themselves are secure

As already said best if you can find out any old documentation or history like an old survey and its surprising what you can find if you do a bit of homework tracing your boats history as many times past marinas remember the boat where some owners can tell you any local rigging companies who may have records or recognize the boats name.

However if you are planning on any offshore or serious sailing don't take chances as if you hit bad weather I can assure you the last thing you need to worry about is the standing rigging

If the boat is afloat and weather permitting ask to see the sails hoisted (one at a time) as not all surveyors do this as its very surprising what you also find not to mention seeing the real condition of the sail, however sensibly you cannot hoist any sails if the boats ashore

Good luck

 

[earlybird]

I am looking to buy a boat. It was refitted with new sails in 2019.
The current owner inherited the boat and is unsure whether the sails replacement included new standing rigging.

I wouldn't expect new sails to be necessarily allied to replacement of the standing rigging. Separate issues really.

 

[jwilson]

No earthly reason why new sails necessarily mean new standing rigging. Many owners, myself included, try and change just one expensive thing at a time, ie new genoa one year, new main the next, new bit of electronics the next year and new standing rigging the next year on. The only common time you tend to find lots of things done at the same time is when someone buys a tired boat knowing they will have to do a lot of upgrading: then all the upgrade stuff gets budgeted in with the buying price and done all at once, or almost so.

If there is a rigger based near the boat it is worth speaking to them: they may well know if and when they did it and if not you can discuss a rig check with them. If you have a survey and the surveyor says "... if the standing rigging cannot be proven to be under XX years old it should be changed" then your insurers will want it done. The insurers themselves don't generally specify an age: they just want all survey recommendations carried out. XX is often 10, sometimes 12 and occasionally 15. Sometimes surveyors will instead of quoting an age limit recommend a separate rig check.

 

[Graham376]

If you have a survey and the surveyor says "... if the standing rigging cannot be proven to be under XX years old it should be changed" then your insurers will want it done. The insurers themselves don't generally specify an age: they just want all survey recommendations carried out. XX is often 10, sometimes 12 and occasionally 15. Sometimes surveyors will instead of quoting an age limit recommend a separate rig check.

I had a hull and rig survey last year and the rig was reported to be serviceable and included several photos of terminals at masthead. No age was stated in report as it would no doubt have resulted in insurers wanting replacement.

 

[syscode]

Wow! Many thanks.
Not what I hoped for, but seems like what needed to hear and listen to
---
Will look for a better documented boat

 

[Biggles Wader]

I wouldnt rule it out on the basis that it needs rigging if the price reflects that. It is essentially a service item and can be accurately costed when offering on the boat.

 

[Stemar]

When I bought Jazzcat, the standing rigging was original from 1984. It looked perfect, but I decided that the sails weren't going on until I'd had it changed. Everything would probably have been fine but...

 

[Minerva]

No. The only way of knowing its age is documentary evidence of actual fitment. Almost equally difficult to determine its condition although inspection of all fittings and terminals should identify any obvious faults. Unlikely rigging was replaced with new sails, although possible. Maybe ask the sailmaker who made the sails. The difficulty with lack of documentary evidence is that your surveyor will be cautious and recommend a rig check, but riggers are reluctant to give acceptable written reports that will satisfy insurers. So be prepared to replace the standing rigging, at least the wires.

Just been through this and although the rigging looked fine, after I bought the boat I discovered particulars of the boat when it changed hands in 2011 which stated rigging was renewed in 2004, which explained the lack of any documentary evidence from the last 2 owners.

Very interesting - On this, would you look to replace the bottle screws at the same time as the wire stays / what is the service life of bottle screws? If the boat had sta-lok fittings, would you be willing to re-use those?

 

[Tranona]

Wow! Many thanks.
Not what I hoped for, but seems like what needed to hear and listen to
---
Will look for a better documented boat

Don't rule it out just for that. Many older boats lack documentation, particularly on maintenance and repairs. Assess the boat for what it is and how closely it meets what you are looking for. nothing will be a perfect match and the key question is whether it can be got to where you want it within your budget. All boats need some expenditure post purchase, but just be aware that replacements of most items almost always cost more than you think and often out of proportion to the cost of the boat. New sails are a big plus on any boat, for example.

 

[Tranona]

Very interesting - On this, would you look to replace the bottle screws at the same time as the wire stays / what is the service life of bottle screws? If the boat had sta-lok fittings, would you be willing to re-use those?

I did, partly because of the unknown age, but mainly o inspection they turned out to be one size smaller than they should have been. Expensive though at £75 each. I understand with Sta Lok you can re-use with new cones.

 

[jac]

Don't rule it out.

Local riggers will probably be able to give you an indicative quote to replace the rigging if they know the model of boat even if they don't inspect it - factor that into any offer you make on the grounds that any insurance co will probably want it replaced. Whilst riggers are probably very busy now I would expect things to start quietening down a bit as everyone finsihes their winter work and relaunches so you could probably get it done fairly quickly

 

[Caer Urfa]

I tell all new buyers 'do your homework', so before you start looking for other boats have you at least asked is there is any old surveys (I usually find them with all the old paperwork) as if there is read it carefully as the surveyor will comment on the rigging which may or may not help to ascertain its last renewal date

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Standing rigging isn‘t that expensive, in boating type money. We spent 2 grand on ours recently, a 30 footer. I’d think that as about average.

 

[Laser310]

Insurers are sometimes requiring new standing rigging at 10 years

If you are buying a used boat more than 10 years old, you may be required to replace the rigging immediately unless you have documentary evidence that it has been replaced inside 10 years.

Some insurers will let you use the boat for a limited period until it is replaced, but some won't.

Riggers are busy this time of year...

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Insurers are sometimes requiring new standing rigging at 10 years

If you are buying a used boat more than 10 years old, you may be required to replace the rigging immediately unless you have documentary evidence that it has been replaced inside 10 years.

Some insurers will let you use the boat for a limited period until it is replaced, but some won't.

Riggers are busy this time of year...

My thoughts entirely. It is your rigging fittings that might fail, not the wire, but if they do in heavy weather then you will lose mast and sail and possibly the boat. It is impossible to truly tell how good the compression fittings are, so most insurers will insist on new rigging every 10 or 15 years. If no one mentioned replacing rigging, then it was not done.

Rigging is just a £1000 to £2000 consumable. Welcome to yachting

 

[Pye_End]

Insurers are sometimes requiring new standing rigging at 10 years

so most insurers will insist on new rigging every 10 or 15 years

An often quoted 'fact' on here, but in the past I am not aware of a poster who has provided any names of companies that come into this category. Mine certainly doesn't, and it is one of the 'big ones'.

 

[Tranona]

An often quoted 'fact' on here, but in the past I am not aware of a poster who has provided any names of companies that come into this category. Mine certainly doesn't, and it is one of the 'big ones'.

Because it is not normally couched in direct terms. But if your survey says it is of uncertain age or needs a detailed inspection, then insurers will ask if it is less than 10 years old and if the answer is no, will require replacement. They may also insist if you are seeking insurance to go offshore or long term cruising.

It is not reasonable for them to have a blanket 2chaange at" rule because insurance is all about assessing risk and they will try and do this on a case by case basis. As this thread shows it is extremely difficult to assess potential life and possible future failure, so any conditions they impose in each individual case will be a judgement based on the information they have.

Ambiguity is a fact of life and we have to live with it.