Asking vs Selling prices

[jnw]

I'm planning to buy my first 'proper' boat later this year. I've been looking at adverts (mainly by brokers) for the sort of thing I'm looking for, and have a good idea of typical asking prices. However, I've no idea what I should expect to pay. I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that sellers ask for rather more than they expect to get, to leave room for haggling. Is anyone who had bought a boat recently willing to tell me how much they paid, relative to the advertised price. I don't expect actual figures - a percentage would be fine. Thanks.

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[Joe_Cole]

Many people will ask a bit extra to allow for haggling. Some people don't want to haggle and ask what they think is a fair price. Some ask silly, over inflated prices.

The short answer is that there is little point in applying a percentage reduction on the asking price; you may still end up with the wrong amount. It just depends on the individual case. Keep your eyes open, look around. Keep an eye on the adverts. Listen to the brokers, but don't be taken in by the bu***hit. Offer what you think it is worth and get a second opinion from your surveyor. Above all be prepared to walk away from a deal if it is more than you believe it is worth.

FWIW when we bought our boat we paid about 12% less than the asking price and we got the vendor to do a couple of jobs.

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[Dave99]

I think as a general rule when dealing with brokers expect that the price listed is 10% over the "actual" althought obviously they wouldn't admit this. Then if you pay the deposit subject to a survey, then you can haggle even more. If there are any problems with the boat then it is down to the vendor to either put things right or offer money off so that you, the buyer can put them right. Basically everything that was flagged up in the survey can be brought to there attention - equally you dont have to tell the vendor or broker how much the surveyor estimated for the value of the boat. I know someone who had 6,000 off a moody because there was a small problem with the engine.

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[Scillypete]

Sold my Halcyon very recently for the asking price, I priced it as I thought fairly and it seems to have been right. The new owner seems pleased so everyone is happy, although I am now trying to cope with no boat to go sailing in at this time.

The main thing is to check out as many similar boats as possible to get an idea for the difference in condition and prices, then you will have a better idea in your own mind as to just how much you will be willing to part with for a particular boat, and you will spot the ones that are asking fair or over the top prices.
Always get a survey.


<hr width=100% size=1>Rather a bad day on the water than a good day at the office.

 

[Fill]

You probably know that brokers seem to charge around 8% of the price as commission. (I'm not sure why, as even estate agents seem to limit themselves to 2% but doubtless there are good reasons). This gives you a starting point to haggle with private sales.

Let's face it, if you offer a very low price as against the asking price then it will be rejected if the price was about right and could be accepted if the seller had been over optimistic.

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[1114C]

Heard of a boat here that actually went for over the asking which was a first that I had heard of doing that

I suppose it is a case of making sure you pay the right price regardless of what was asked which could well be quite a bit under or, in that rare case, over

Good luck

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[alahol2]

We bought at the beginning of last season and paid around 10% less than the asking. That seems to be the average from personal and anecdotal evidence over the years. That said, there are boats out there that are well overpriced and I wouldn't shrink at offering half the asking price, they can only say no. Several years back we made such an offer and were rejected. Three weeks later they came back to accept, I took great pleasure in telling them we'd already bought another boat.
Good luck

<hr width=100% size=1>I really would rather be sailing...

 

[john_morris_uk]

How long is a piece of string? It all depends seems to be the most accurate answer. When we bought recently we went through the whole gamut of overpriced and realistically priced and complete rubbish. See loads of boats and you will get an idea of what is going on?

If you are looking at a fairly standard or common make, the brokers nearly all subscribe to a system which tells them what boats have been offered at and what they actually made. Of course it only helps if there are lots to compare.

Incidentally we also got a print off of the prices for Sigma 33s when we were selling and sold fairly close to our asking price because I believe we pitched it reasonably.

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[Sybarite]

Click on the box above (second line) "Buying a boat". You get a good idea of the selection on the market, prices and condition from the photos.

John.

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[rwoofer]

I paid about 4% less than asking price.

RB

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[Guest]

Alacrity 19 incl. Trailer etc. Asking 1600 pound I paid 1100 pound

Snapdragon 23 + tender outboard Asking 3500 I paid 1150

Sunrider 25 Asking 8500 I paid 7900

Depending on the boat - you can expect anywhere from 5 - 40% ...... the older the boat - the bigger the drop especially when it gets to low headroom / limited facility boats. The newer more family / comfortable jobs have low differentials between asking and selling prices as most are Broker / dealer controlled.

The trick then is to look for most accessories and extras to make life and pocket more comfortable ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[KevB]

The obvious thing to do is offer much less than it's worth/asking price, you never know they might accept it. You can always increase your offer to a more realistic price. How gutted would you feel if you put in a reasonable offer and it was accepted first time. I for one would always be wondering how much lower I could have offered and got it accepted. You have to take the pi$$ with your first offer just in case they are desperate to sell. Oh, and make sure the broker passes on your offer, don't let them tell you that it wont be accepted. Let the seller make that decission, not the money grabbing brokers.

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[AndrewB]

I've bought and sold a dozen or so yachts over the years. For a while now it's been a buyer's market, and a starting offer 10% below asking is considered quite normal. Though you need to ask yourself first what your real top price is before you get into haggling.

It is sometimes possible to do much better, but to save a waste of time, check a few things.

First, do some research on how long the boat has been on the market, and whether the asking price has been reduced. Fairly easy if you picked this up from a magazine ad.

Boats being advertised cheap, e.g. by small ad, or that show signs of neglect, are likely to be less well valued by their owners and so make a low offer on these, compared with someone's "pride and joy".

If its a brokered sale, ask the broker whether the buyer is amenable to an offer, and watch his body-language, not his lips. A fair proportion of boats, like houses, are not "seriously on the market". The owner will only sell if someone comes up with his overinflated valuation, maybe not even then, otherwise he's happy to keep it for the time being. Some brokers are honest enough to advise you of this.

For the really big bargains keep an eye on Ebay and other auctions, also non-specialist advertisers like Exchange and Mart and your local freebie ad newspaper, and prepare for a quick sale. Not much comes this way, and it tends to be older and neglected craft, but with the potential for doing up. Don't neglect essential precautions to check that the boat really does belong to the seller and is sound.



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[roberth]

I was in your position this spring. After a huge amount of searching , found the boat I wanted. Priced very high teens, and the broker said the buyer would not negotiate. I offered 13% less, settled on 8.5% less subject to survey - which it passed pretty much with flying colours.

So, while no room for further negotiation, I ended up with a well-maintained boat at a fair price.

Good luck in your new venture.

roberth

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[wooslehunter]

Negotiated to around -10% of the asking price a year ago subject to survey. Survey came up with some major points & I walked away. I think I've seen the same boat advertised now for -30% of the original asking price. If it's the same boat then the seller is now "very keen" to sell.

Generally everyonw will negotiate. If they won't & the asking price is unreasonable then walk away or go back a few months later. It'll probably still be for sale.

Also, many people advertise privately & with a broker. You can immediately save the broker fee if you approach privately - look in the mags, web sites & owners clubs.

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[cliff]

While I generally agree with the previous posts on this touchy subject there are some things to remember

Very few people are desperate to sell so offer a fair price or it will be a non starter.
Even if a boat is advertised through a broker and privately, brokerage fees still have to be paid unless the seller is paly with the broker. once a boat is in the hands of a broker it is not easy to get away from the 6~8% fees.
Old boats are a minefield - some are neglected and are worth "peanuts" some are well maintained or even refitted and are worth a lot more. I am in process of selling one now and have looked at the same boats for sale. Yes I have priced mine middle to upper range but there again I know what I have spent (capital) over the last few years and taking into account a valuation survey I am in the ball park on price (less 10%)

Never insult the owner of a boat by being a prick and offering stupid money.

AS everything in life a boat is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it but it just might be worth more to the owner.

In my case if I don't realise 90% of asking price I will give it to my son rather than let her go to some shister who thinks offering a small price is the smart thing to do and if he does not want her, I'd give her to D. Jones eventually.

I am actually enjoying owning 2 boats as they are do different in characteristics and uses but there is still the thought "do I need 2 boats" and truthfully the answer is no, so one for sale - eventuallly

Always look at what has been done to the boat recently (new engine(s), winches, wiring, instruments etc), date of last surveyetc., then talk price. IMHO you will get 10% off at least if you are interested.

Mayy sellers use brokers because they do not want the hassle of the "sunday lookers" - oh lovely day let's go look at some boats in the marina type - no intention to buy, just want to look.

Anyway, rant over, best of luck in your search for your ideal "baby"



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[jnw]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. Now just got to find the right boat!!


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[webcraft]

Working out averages is irrelevant . . . even if the condition is the same the ancilliary equipment is what can make a big difference.

Add on spares, safety gear, autohelm, liferaft, rubadub and outboard just for starters . . . included or taken away by the owner for his next boat? Work out what this sort of gear will cost you new before you consider whether or not it's a fair price.

And that's before you work out the age of the rigging, sails etc. If the boat costs £1500 to rig then every year older the rigging is is another £150 off the price - etc. etc.


- Nick

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[jonjo]

Re: Age is key

Generally speaking prices get softer the older the yacht. Last year I paid 55% the original asking price of a 30 year old Nicholson but 9 months elapsed between first viewing and my first offer.

Two months ago I had a 90% offer accepted on tidy a 6 year yacht but I backed because of a paperwork problem.

Some old boats are obviously cherished, experienced buyers identify these quickly and such boats sell at close to their asking price, The other 90% of aging trash sits on the market for ever, the longer you study the market the more you will appreciate just how long most boats take to shift.

Be aware that people use the internet as a cheap medium to punt boats at unrealistic prices. At least with a YM classified ad you know someone is spending money to sell their yacht.

There are some fundamental demographic forces at play with the old boat market and I predict values will continue to slide. The whole market is currently buoyed up by a generation of gentlemen of a certain age who got into yachting in the 70's and 80's, these gentle folk have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth that a "good" GRP boat slowly raise in headline value.

Technically speaking most components of a GRP yacht are worthless or require expensive restoration at 30 years of age. Eventually a younger generation of buyers are going to smell a rat and prices will really tumble.

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[boatless]

Re: Age is key

Very interesting viewpoint jonjo, it has always been assumed that ageing hulks would always fall into grateful hands, and that was the case with cars until ten years (or so) ago. That has changed completely, prompted, no doubt, by changed scrap yard/recycling rules, but yes, food for thought!

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by boatless on 28/05/2004 22:33 (server time).</FONT></P>