'Asking Price' vs 'Offer Price' - brokerage boats

Tranona said:
... Not worth it if you want to use the boat here unless you fancy the long trip back for the experience. The cost though will probably exceed any saving in purchase price.
Click to expand...
I want the boat in the UK so getting it here is a factor. Indicative cost for a delivery voyage is c. £5k. I'd do at least half the trip for the experience, but nonetheless I'd still rather pay the premium to buy locally.
 
steveeasy said:
I recently viewed a boat very briefly. I then drove home 300 miles. I made an offer based on that short viewing and it was accepted. I then went back to view the boat properly to purchase and having checked other sale prices of similar boats, came to the impression the boat was still over priced taking in to account the overall condition.

As a buyer, I made some mistakes. I should have not have rushed on the first viewing. I should have checked everything prior to making an offer. I should have researched previous sales of similar boats, then made an offer. However my intentions were genuine, I had arranged moorings and insurance, done 1200 miles and feel a little fed up quite frankly. Would you say ive done the wrong thing, been unreasonable, I don't think so. I have not made another offer as the broker told me not to bother. I want too and buy the boat. but don't want to be tarnished as being a wheeler dealer. but is that not what is being said about buyers if they make offers.

A seller wants to sell a boat for as much money as he can get. A buyer wants to feel that his purchase is reasonable value. Offers are made to take in to account condition and equipment on board. Therefore offers made should be seen as a progressive attempt to agree a sale price, with the owner and buyer working together to agree a price.

Steveeasy
Click to expand...

I believe you are saying that you have withdrawn your original offer and wanted to make a lower one but the broker has told you not to bother. If so, that sounds really short-sighted of the broker as the seller might well be interested in hearing a firm offer even if it's lower.

As someone said above, I can't really understand why the concept of negotiation seems to have so much emotion attached to it.

Two personal examples.

I was selling a house many years ago. Buyer offered £120k after survey. Solicitors had started work on both sides so costs were beginning to rack up. Suddenly, the day before contract exchange, my Estate Agent phones me to say that the buyer wants to reduce his offer to £110k. I thought about it for a couple of minutes and said that it stays £120k or the deal is off. Agent phones back 1 minute later to say we are proceeding at £120k.

Selling a car a couple of years ago. I'm offered £2200 over the phone. I accept and we agree collection the next day. Another guy phones up and offers £2000. I say that the car is sold but call me later the next day to confirm. The buyer does not turn up and the alternative buyer phones as promised and I say it's his for £2000. However, he now wants to reduce his offer to £1800. I think about it and agree and he collects next day and pays in cash.

In neither case is there any hostility or acrimony. It's called negotiation. No-one is forcing anyone to accept anything they don't want to accept so why the anguish?

Richard
 
steveeasy said:
I recently viewed a boat very briefly. I then drove home 300 miles. I made an offer based on that short viewing and it was accepted. I then went back to view the boat properly to purchase and having checked other sale prices of similar boats, came to the impression the boat was still over priced taking in to account the overall condition.

As a buyer, I made some mistakes. I should have not have rushed on the first viewing. I should have checked everything prior to making an offer. I should have researched previous sales of similar boats, then made an offer. However my intentions were genuine, I had arranged moorings and insurance, done 1200 miles and feel a little fed up quite frankly. Would you say ive done the wrong thing, been unreasonable, I don't think so. I have not made another offer as the broker told me not to bother. I want too and buy the boat. but don't want to be tarnished as being a wheeler dealer. but is that not what is being said about buyers if they make offers.

A seller wants to sell a boat for as much money as he can get. A buyer wants to feel that his purchase is reasonable value. Offers are made to take in to account condition and equipment on board. Therefore offers made should be seen as a progressive attempt to agree a sale price, with the owner and buyer working together to agree a price.

Steveeasy
Click to expand...


Unfortunately these are the some of the tactics employed by real time wasters. The broker has probably seen it all before. I would move on.
 
doug748 said:
Unfortunately these are the some of the tactics employed by real time wasters. The broker has probably seen it all before. I would move on.
Click to expand...

Two different opinions. the latter one is a little unjust. the reality is that while looking specifically for a new boat, I called at a brokers. I viewed a boat of interest. I had only a very short time viewing the boat. I went home and considered the boat. I then asked if the owner would consider an offer, to see if it was worth going forward. it was accepted. I then had to make sure I was happy with the boat and inventory. I went back to view the boat a second time to make sure I was happy with electrics, engine, rigging sails, and everything one should check either prior to making an offer or through a survey.

Now there is nothing sinister by either party here. I found or was unhappy with aspects of the boat on the second visit that were not possible to find on my informal and rushed first viewing(not my fault I might add, the broker was in a rush) consequently I felt the price was a little high. I did not try any rude tactics. I was told not to try making a lower offer.

Clearly I made a mistake in negotiating a price before travelling a further 600 mile round trip.(but would no one else do the same.) That said my actions are hardly that of a real time waster. the trip cost £2-300. I had everything arranged to take over the boat including mooring. What is surprising is being labelled as a time waster when actually I want to purchase a boat, but want to use due diligence and make sure my purchase works for me.

Steveeasy

Absolutely I intend to make a revised offer that hopefully works for the buyer and the seller. its called negotiating. It can be done in a diplomatic way, with the upmost respect to the seller.
 
steveeasy said:
I made an offer based on that short viewing and it was accepted.
Click to expand...

steveeasy said:
That said my actions are hardly that of a real time waster..
Click to expand...

You appear to have made an offer and then withdrawn it.

That is textbook time-wasting.

I sympathise over the long journey, and the broker hurrying you, but I believe a man's word is his promise, and if you're not making a committed offer then your words should leave no room for doubt.

When viewing a boat you should allow enough time, and you should tell the broker "well, if you've only got an hour, we'll leave it for another day when you've got more time".
 
Last edited:
Strolls said:
You appear to have made an offer and then withdrawn it.

That is textbook time-wasting.

I sympathise over the long journey, and the broker hurrying you, but I believe a man's word is his promise, and if you're not making a committed offer then your words should leave no room for doubt.

When viewing a boat you should allow enough time, and you should tell the broker "well, if you've only got an hour, we'll leave it for another day when you've got more time".
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. timewasting on whos behalf. the potential buyer has travelled however far, in my case a long way. the broker has taken a call. so whilst I sympathise with any other party, and any decisions I have come too. it is not time wasting. it may be disappointing, but not time wasting. my time is as important as anyone's else's. I am not implying anyone has wasted my time.

Id like to emphasise the broker did not intend to rush me. he was most helpful. indeed as a buyer I too was trying to be proactive. I have a good relationship with the broker I feel. As for when viewing a boat you should allow enough time. of course in an ideal world, but why should a broker or a buyer not take the opportunity to show or sell or view if the chance comes along.

Steveeasy
 
A1GSS said:
I want the boat in the UK so getting it here is a factor. Indicative cost for a delivery voyage is c. £5k. I'd do at least half the trip for the experience, but nonetheless I'd still rather pay the premium to buy locally.
Click to expand...
Based on my experience of bring my boat back from Corfu you could double that easily. Even doing it yourself with an unpaid crew, you are talking minimum of 4 weeks and a lot of diesel plus things you don't think of such as preparing the boat, spares, food, marina berthing for when you get fed up with motoring for hours on end, air fares, wear and tear. I motor(sailed) the thousand miles to Spain in just over 2 weeks with a professional skipper and then (because of running out of time and inclination) trucked the boat back to Poole. Total cost £9k (in 2010). Bit cheaper if you sail up to Slovenia and truck back to the channel coast.

The only way it makes sense is if the trip back is part of the adventure, and take most of a summer season to do it, or do it in two legs, first to Southern Spain and next spring up the Iberian coast before the northerlies set in.
 
I think if Steve's offer was stated to be subject to his further due diligence in some way then nobody should be surprised if he reduces that offer. If on the other hand the offer was, or appeared to be, unconditional, then the other party might feel aggrieved.

I think personally that it's always best to make even the first offer in writing, stating the conditions. (In this case perhaps "subject to further inspection, contract and survey") If nothing else the process of writing the email focuses the mind rather more that the quick call to the broker.

It does strike me that the boat market does seem to treat the period between offer and contract rather differently from the property market, where (in my experience) out of the blue changes by either party are tolerated as a perhaps unpleasant, but acceptable, fact of life up to the moment there is ink on paper. So perhaps we are a gentlemanly bunch, after all.
 
Last edited:
I have been following the prices of several boats of 46-55ft and it is very interesting because there are several examples at less than half new prices that are in more or less mint condition. Some of these boats are not selling and have been on sale for more than a year. If I was in a position to buy I would feel fairly confident that an offer would be accepted because all these sellers are out of pocket in storage costs and the cost of carry. However, as the length decreases the time to sale also decreases and in fact some shorter models are selling at higher prices than the longer and more expensive-when-new boats. If I had to take a guess I would imagine that there are more people who are inclined to want to buy a brand new Swan than a really good secondhand one. It seems to me that someone with say £450,000 to spend would rather buy a brand new 45' rather than a second hand one 56 even though the 56 might be half it's new price.

The point I am making is that if you find the right boat that is not selling you can get a real bargain and be able to make an offer, but beware because when you want to sell you will face a similar problem so you have to factor that in at the time of purchase. Shorter boats are easier to price.
 
Alan ashore said:
I think if Steve's offer was stated to be subject to his further due diligence in some way then nobody should be surprised if he reduces that offer.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I am a bit unclear myself on exactly what happened. My previous post I hit "send" earlier than I intended, and then had to go back and edit it, so I felt hurried and perhaps didn't express myself best.

Nevertheless, steveeasy states that he "made an offer" and he appears to be saying that the broker is annoyed with him and has told him "not to bother" making another one.

So one can only assume that the broker is antagonised because he thought the first offer was unconditional. I don't see why he'd be angry otherwise.

If that's the case I can sympathise - why would a broker spend more time showing off the boat and negotiating the price, if the buyer has already reneged on his offer once? There's surely every chance he'll do so again if he spots a better bargain elsewhere.

After making an offer, payment depends on the survey. Weekend sailors can't be certain of identifying every possible maintenance issue, and it's routine for the offer to be conditional on the surveyor's report. However that's wholly different from a buyer dithering and saying "well, I know I said I'd give you £20k for it, but I've changed my mind, and now I've decided I'm only offering £15k".

I do apologise if I've misinterpreted steveeasy's posts.
 
Hi Strolls,
Sorry ive given the wrong impression. I don't think any anger exists between anyone actually. Regardless of opinion I am a genuine potential buyer. I believed after a brief viewing, to discuss and agree an offer, no pre contract not based on anything other than determine a purchase price. no survey, I don't ask to many questions and if I do, I don't get answers. I am a believer of not wasting peoples time or money. I don't do comebacks for anything, if I mess up I carry the can. I do however act in my own and my families interests. I made a second visit and on the basis of that second visit, had several concerns that led me to feel I had to withdraw my offer. nothing clever, no strategy involved. If I was not happy with things I should withdraw on that price. I decided I would not make a second lower offer on the day as it in itself would be ungentlemanly conduct. But did discuss doing so retrospectively which was not welcomed. seams the most obvious and proactive thing to do to achieve a purchase and sale. nothing ventured nothing gained.

My point was not to be specific about my situation but to defend so called unwilling purchasers referred to as timewasters. I don't get it actually, I see it as a missed opportunity to sell quite frankly. In my situation how could someone who travelled 1200 miles be referred to wasting 1 hour of someone's time. I did not want a try sail. I did not ask for evidence of expenditure. Indeed I discussed a similar boat today , that has been listed as sold twice recently. the boat has been on the market for over a year. Several offers turned down, now after a year the price finally accepted is substantially lower than earlier offers shunned.

I am a gentleman and act accordingly.

Steveeasy
 
jonic said:
Very true Dom.

I spoke with a seriously well connected top of his game marine professional just after the boat show. His company make an excellent product that I won't mention here. But it's very good and is often recommended on here. I have bought from them too. First class workmanship and service.

How you doing I said?

Great he said, if it wasn't for the wave of negative emotion I have to deal with from the clients.

There just seems to be this aggressive mentality now to attempt to knock down the price, even if the product is excellent and well priced.
Click to expand...

Most probably his customers, like most of us, have been squeezed from all sides with income cuts and marina price hikes. Boating and Yachting is the only sector that does not seem to have acknowledged that we are a very near 0% inflation economy.

I do not have patience when they tell me that anyone offer good quality products. I do too produce good quality work, but in real terms now I am paid the same or less than what I was paid back in 2008.

Going back to the original topic, I believe the time for good deals has gone. Those who HAD to sell and HAD to accept lower offers have now sold their boats. On the market now we have those who want to sell for the right price and are not too bothered if they cannot upgrade, and buyers who cannot afford a bigger boat, but think we are still in 2008.
 
Last edited:
I've just sold my boat, I knew the price I wanted, broker said put it on for £6K more, so I agreed, sold in 5 weeks for exactly what I hoped to get :encouragement:
 
TheCharteringClasses said:
A sale of a good that is typically haggled over (boats, like cars and houses) that completes at the asking price suggests the asking price was too low.
Click to expand...

Valid Point, but the buyer, seller and broker were happy. Job done. A successful outcome, shame its not the same outcome across the board. All buyers need to do, to make this happen, is pay the asking price regardless of important factors such as condition, inventory and the current market trends.

Steveeasy
 
steveeasy said:
Valid Point, but the buyer, seller and broker were happy. Job done. A successful outcome, shame its not the same outcome across the board. All buyers need to do, to make this happen, is pay the asking price regardless of important factors such as condition, inventory and the current market trends.
Click to expand...

Yes, and for some sellers the price isn't really the point also there's a cost associated with keeping boats, so it's not an entirely simple market.
 
TheCharteringClasses said:
A sale of a good that is typically haggled over (boats, like cars and houses) that completes at the asking price suggests the asking price was too low.
Click to expand...

Not always - the seller may be in a hurry, may have a clear idea of what the boat is worth to him, or may just hate the stress of bargaining. As steveeasy hints, price maximisation is not the only motive of every seller.
 
A1GSS said:
Looking at reasonably recent production boats that sold in fair volume, so there are several examples (or even, many example) for sale via brokerage or privately at any one time. It's easy enough to draw up a table of age vs asking price to get a snapshot of what the asking prices look like (and that would probably set a ceiling price) but what's a good rule of thumb for where an opening offer on one could be pitched?
Click to expand...

Worked with an accountant who once had a similar problem but with houses at a time when the house market was slack. He simply made a very low offer subject to contract on 5 different houses, and when one of the owners weakened through desperation, he bought that one. You could do the same if you are in the bulk ben/jen/bav/hans market. Just make sure that the offers are subject to contract ie non binding.

It will irritate the brokesr but who cares?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top