'Asking Price' vs 'Offer Price' - brokerage boats

[npf1]

That would be so if boats were like (say) washing machines - a utilitarian bit of equipment that we judge purely on its utility. But somewhere along the line, boats gain sentimental attachments, and someone making a (ridiculously) low offer may well be seen as insulting, to both you as owner (have I been such a bad owner that she's not worth what others of the same type are?) and to the the boat (Is the boat I have loved for years not worth my love?). Capricious ISN'T for sale, but if she were, I'd probably tell the broker a threshold below which I didn't want to hear of the offer - the broker would reject it out of hand, without upsetting me!

Our last boat probably fell into that category - much loved, done a lot together, plus irrational amounts of £s, time and sweat poured into it during the decade+ that we owned it.

Jonic kindly sold that boat last year. And yes, there was definately a price below which I would have decided to keep it. Had there been offers below that level, I might have done a BAFTA nonimee performance of feigning offence and even said 'jump off a pier', but I wouldn't have thought anymore of it, let alone be truly offended or stressed.

Now if I had needed to sell, the situation would have been completely different. A low offer would have been a blow, maybe even a reality check and, perhaps, a sign of things to come. But any upset would have been down to my expectations or needs, not something to be directed at the offeror. In fact, I may have been even relieved that there was a deal available.

 

[jonic]

Yes low offers are offensive to owners, and why wouldn't they be.

He paid for the boat so you are asking for his money.

People who make below market value offers get turned down and get contacted last, which is natural.

What I don't understand is the aggressive nature of some that make frankly offensive offers just for the sake of it, followed by the bleating that no one is accepting the offer and then the complaint that they weren't contacted again until after the boat was sold.

My 10 year old was in the car the other day when I got one of these calls.

They always follow the same format.

Sharp intake of breath (you can almost feel the adrenaline through their voice) then aggressive opener (no politeness) followed by: I am interested in XXXX but I'm looking at lots of other boats which are better and cheaper but would be prepared to offer (insert stupid price) as I think it's over priced. I also don't like (insert list of imaginary negatives about the boat) and I am looking at lots of other boats with or without (the stuff on the imaginary list) which I can buy which are better. I will also have to spend (insert over the top figure) to make it brand new (even though it's second hand and priced as second hand) and I would need to reduce the price to fund this (i.e I want the owner to pay for all this brand new kit for me, even though I am offering less that the second hand price!!) do you think the owner will be interested?

My 10 year old said afterwards does he really think you haven't heard all that before?

As for the boat mentioned earlier in the thread (the one with the pier) the owner reduced to £45k. The low offer wanted to pay 50% less! (and then subject to survey) the boat has now sold elsewhere for £43k.

Fortunately these kind of offers are rare but the aggressive, unpleasant trying it on nature behind them has increased.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry but that reads like:-
The new price is meaningless
The seller's price is meaningless
The number of years old is meaningless.
So,
Only the buyer's offer is real
and only then when the seller accepts it.

Very helpful in choosing a price, or in making an offer.
It suggests a bit of bargaining would be desirable.

Good summary - with only one marginal proviso. Most new boats are sold at a price that covers the cost of making it, which in theory provides the floor. What is difficult is establishing an actual price for new boats because the "list" price excludes all sorts of extras from which buyers choose. Typically the "list" price is around 70% of the final invoice price if typical extras are chosen, but could be as low as 60% or as high as 90%. so, your base for depreciation is specific to the individual boat.

Every buyer and seller is faced with imperfect information when making offers or setting prices but some end up with an agreement on the transaction where both are satisfied.

 

[RAI]

So is there a percentage lower offer that is not offensive? Or is the buyer supposed to fess-up and offer the asking price or he will have an offended seller anyway. Or maybe it is just better not to make an offer at all to avoid offence, if one thinks the price is a tad too high.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

So is there a percentage lower offer that is not offensive....

If I've learned anything from this it's that there's no one answer to that. It depends.

 

[dom]

I put a mid-90s Laser + trailer + trolley + one new sail (v. good condition) up for sale last year. I calculated that £1,250 was a fair/slightly cheap price and told the house minder to sell it for that. First bloke came and offered £650 which she declined. He then agreed to £950 which she still couldn't accept. He finally offered £1,050 whereupon she told him that I might accept his kind offer upon my return. In the end he agreed to the £1,250 and took the boat away with him! The point is simply that some people will knowingly underbid a fairly priced boat simply because they've watch too many Wheeler Dealer episodes!

 

[jonic]

Jonic kindly sold that boat last year. And yes, there was definately a price below which I would have decided to keep it. Had there been offers below that level, I might have done a BAFTA nonimee performance of feigning offence and even said 'jump off a pier', but I wouldn't have thought anymore of it, let alone be truly offended or stressed.

Hello NiXXX

About time you bought another one then!

 

[npf1]

Hello NiXXX

About time you bought another one then!

Couldn't agree more and trying to find a way to make it happen. Perhaps I ought to sell the wife, but would need to be wary of offensively low offers! And her finding out!

 

[TheCharteringClasses]

Not sure how you arrive at your "logic"...

Let X be the asking price and Y be the offer price and Z be the accepted price.
Given that Y<=X and Z=Y then Z<=X

On the basis that a seller can only accept an offer that is made.

 

[NealB]

The point about being 'offended' by a low offer is totally bizarre to me.

I've bought and sold over twenty boats over the years, plus many cars, and quite a few houses.

I am never offended by low offers. I'd much rather have offers than no offers.

If it's too low, I just say a very polite, very sincere "thanks, but no thanks".

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Sample data. Here's a plot of today's asking prices for 26 examples of one boat I'm interested in, the Sun Odyssey 42 Deck Saloon. Same product, different specs, all in Europe. A clear trend on price, differences for any one year can be explained away by location, spec, and presumably owners' aspirations and boat condition. OK a small-ish sample but certainly possible to see where a fair and reasonable bid might land.

 

[Tranona]

Sample data. Here's a plot of today's asking prices for 26 examples of one boat I'm interested in, the Sun Odyssey 42 Deck Saloon. Same product, different specs, all in Europe. A clear trend on price, differences for any one year can be explained away by location, spec, and presumably owners' aspirations and boat condition. OK a small-ish sample but certainly possible to see where a fair and reasonable bid might land.


View attachment 53917

I have done similar price comparisons with Bav 37s when I was trying to fix an asking price for mine and on Bav 32s when I was seriously considering buying one. Just like you found a spread of +/- approx 15% from the mean for boats of similar age.

You may notice that those are the sorts of spreads I have referred to earlier. You will find similar spreads on many popular boats where there reasonable numbers on the market at any one time. Not sure that the prices on their own help in deciding on an offer price given the variations you correctly identify. Back to the basic problem of imperfect information. You need to see each boat in detail before you can get a fix on which offers the best value.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Not sure that the prices on their own help in deciding on an offer price given the variations you correctly identify. Back to the basic problem of imperfect information. You need to see each boat in detail before you can get a fix on which offers the best value.

Yes, totally agree. This helps in forming a view of whether one boat at a 'high' price might actually be a bargain, fair value, or 'expensive' based on what you know from the ad (or inspection) of its spec and condition. And location. I might do a new view with location added, would be interesting... Modest spec well-used boats in Greece are definitely 'cheaper' than light use high spec boats in the UK.

 

[Tranona]

The lower Greek prices reflect partly the lack of demand - most buyers are non resident - and partly the influence of ex charter boats which tend to depress all prices. You also find that even privately owned boats can be in relatively poor condition for their age as absent owners don't keep on top of them. Having said that if you want a boat to use in Greece then it is almost certainly better to buy there, particularly with the current exchange rate. Not worth it if you want to use the boat here unless you fancy the long trip back for the experience. The cost though will probably exceed any saving in purchase price.

 

[steveeasy]

I recently viewed a boat very briefly. I then drove home 300 miles. I made an offer based on that short viewing and it was accepted. I then went back to view the boat properly to purchase and having checked other sale prices of similar boats, came to the impression the boat was still over priced taking in to account the overall condition.

As a buyer, I made some mistakes. I should have not have rushed on the first viewing. I should have checked everything prior to making an offer. I should have researched previous sales of similar boats, then made an offer. However my intentions were genuine, I had arranged moorings and insurance, done 1200 miles and feel a little fed up quite frankly. Would you say ive done the wrong thing, been unreasonable, I don't think so. I have not made another offer as the broker told me not to bother. I want too and buy the boat. but don't want to be tarnished as being a wheeler dealer. but is that not what is being said about buyers if they make offers.

A seller wants to sell a boat for as much money as he can get. A buyer wants to feel that his purchase is reasonable value. Offers are made to take in to account condition and equipment on board. Therefore offers made should be seen as a progressive attempt to agree a sale price, with the owner and buyer working together to agree a price.

Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

Depends on the nature of the offer. If it is accepted then a contract could exist and you would then be obliged to buy. If it is in the form of something like "would the seller accept" then you are not obliged.

That is why brokers (and sensible private sellers) use written contracts signed by both parties so that it is clear that both are committed.

Your basic premise is correct. Don't rush in. Be sure that the boat is what you want before you make an offer. can be frustrating if you have to travel a lot, but you have to live with the decision so need to be comfortable with it. If you have doubts, best to walk away.

 

[dom]

Would you say ive done the wrong thing, been unreasonable, I don't think so. I have not made another offer as the broker told me not to bother. I want too and buy the boat. but don't want to be tarnished as being a wheeler dealer. but is that not what is being said about buyers if they make offers.

A seller wants to sell a boat for as much money as he can get. A buyer wants to feel that his purchase is reasonable value. Offers are made to take in to account condition and equipment on board. Therefore offers made should be seen as a progressive attempt to agree a sale price, with the owner and buyer working together to agree a price.

In the city if one makes a hard offer on a stock one owns it, period! However, in this case you have in effect gone cold on a hand-shake type conditional offer, so you weren't committed to purchase. Once again make that mistake in the City and you're reputation is seriously damaged. It is however clear that you meant well, but even so one really cannot go around placing hard bids on things and then regarding their acceptance as an option to purchase.

The silver lining in this case is that you weren't in Christie's at the time!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

... do a new view with location added, would be interesting... Modest spec well-used boats in Greece are definitely 'cheaper' than light use high spec boats in the UK.

Chart showing boats for sale in the Med vs UK. Clear delta between the two, not all explained by spec or condition, but as stated above ^^ the difference is (probably) still not enough to make it work while buying there and bringing over to the UK.

 

[Martin999]

Part of that difference has come from the move in exchange rates as well...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes, probably more than any other factor. About half of the Med boast in the sample are in Greece...