Arrrghh .... terminal engine problem?

[AndrewB]

My trusty and very reliable 20 year old Perkins 4-108 has been diagnosed with a cracked main block, by the no 1 cylinder. Thought it was running a bit rough last season. £1,500 to replace it with a second hand block and rebuild the engine. (Engineer says it should be good for another 10 years). Should I accept, or buy a new engine?

Or should I just stuff a bit of Super-Steel in the crack and hope for the best?

 

[mtb]

Did you see the free boat in the for sale section it had a Perkins. £1500 !! does that include taking it out putting back in and guarantee if so not bad .
To repair a cracked block it would have to be stitched which is expensive. The term describes the method , mainly this is done to vintage engines which cant be replaced.
Cheers
Mick


smile you'l be on your boat soon ;-)
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats/>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats/</A>

 

[charles_reed]

Best bet, if you have the competence, is to buy a Perkins engine from a vehicle in a breakers and rebuild it using your marinisation parts.

That should cost a lot less than £1500 and whilst you're about it yo can check the bearings and do the head.

I'm afraid The £1500 you've been quoted doesn't, probably, include any of the replacement parts you'll find are required when you strip the engine.

I certainly wouldn't plump for a new engine - probable installed cost would be about x2.5 your quote.

 

[AndrewB]

The quote does include all normal replacement parts required for a rebuild (gaskets, valve guides, shells, cylinder liners etc) plus checking bearings, head, injectors etc; regrinding valves and other routine overhaul tasks.

But of course some other major problem could emerge.

 

[tr7v8]

Ummmm, not many Perkins in scrappies as they weren't fitted to many cars or vans.
Their are a fair few around as they sold in biggish numbers for generators and small dumpers etc.
I am personally not a great fan of Perkins as I've seen to many with ither cracked heads or occasionally cracked blocks. However the cost of finding something else to fit the same space, mounts etc. will be expensive.
Stitching blocks needn't be mega expensive and as it's a linered engine should be reliable afterwards. However by the time you've reconned it it will be alot more than £ 1,500 as if the block has cracked you may find the head has as well .

Jim
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[colvic]

Totally agree! Having just replaced what was an excellent Thorneycroft with a modern one with legs to suit previous mounting points, the new engine mounts £200, smaller exhaust and waterlock £175, shaft as the old one was too short £200, alter wiring as starter, alternator etc. on opposite side, alter fuel lines, change position of morse control so existing lines would reach, new dash to accomodate newer panel etc.etc. has cost well over £1000 above price of engine and still not paid the installer!

Back in the water with a temporary water line as she is now almost 500lbs lighter and balast is all to cock. If only I'd been able to find a good Old Thorny



Phil

 

[stevebirch2002]

If you rebuild you will still have a twenty year old engine. The installation costs need not be as expensive as everyone says. I have installed the Beta BZ482 into quite afew Albin Vegas and takes between 2 -3 days. Custom made feet are just four bits of steel, not expensive and need not cost the £200 mentioned. If you are a competent DIY then installing a boat engine is not rocket science, just have it checked after installation by a qualified engineer. Hope this helps. By the way the Beta is a fine negine based on the Kubota so spares etc are available worldwide and at a reasonable price.

Albin Vega "Southern Comfort" V1703

 

[AndrewB]

I've been looking very seriously at the Beta BV1305 at LIBS on the strength of good reports on this forum. It looks the nearest equivalent to my Perkins that will fit in the space, and a price of £3,700 including VAT is competitive.

I'd argue the toss over whether the feet are just four bits of steel, but they are included in with a Beta, so the price is irrelevant. I don't consider myself up to the tricky bits of the installation, but I'd gripe if it added 10% to the cost.

Incidentally, with a rebuild its a moot point what the age of the engine will be. Its usually judged by the serial number stamped on the main block, so if I buy a 10 year old block, hey presto, a 10 year old engine. True, some parts may be older, but anything looking its age would be replaced.

 

[tr7v8]

I think the point he was making is that if you rebuild the Perky, the Technology is circa 1960/70s and although shiney and new it's still a 35 year design!
As a budget boater I understand the dilemma but I'd probably go fro something like a marinised Ford XLD or even a Peugeot XUD which all in could be done for the recon costs of the Perkins. Peanut spares prices and from any corner of the world. Perkins bits aren't that common now and are going to get rarer.

Jim
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[Forbsie]

Is the Peugeot XUD the same as the Ford Granada/Sierra 2.1lt? If so, I may have one coming available next week complete with a Lancing Marine marinisation kit.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[colvic]

The mounting feet are important for dampening and vibration control. Don't know how yours are fixed at present but you can bet the new ones will be shorter in length between than on the Perkins and unless Beta or your supplier will make special engine brackets they will also be closer togethet in width which means altering your bearers. Check all this out as it is the most important aspect getting it to line up to your shaft.

I spent the extra few pounds on the Vetus feet and AMC Diesel came up with some special legs for the mountings so it all matched the original and it worked so well that the Vetus Bullflex coupling rotates round the shaft and on intial commissioning didn't set the shaft moving at all which meant we had perfect alignment. Now all tightened up and the engine drives the prop very quietly.

What ever you do, you'll always think you could have done it better or cheaper or whatever...do what you are most comfortable with and you will be happier.


Phil

 

[dick_james]

There's a chap in Ramsgate who deals with perkins engines, seems to know them inside out and has dozens lying on his floor:
Michael Roberts
Marlec Marine
15-18 Military Road
Royal Harbour
Ramsgate
Tel# 01843 592176 Fax# 0143 850935

 

[jfkal]

I would either low cost patch it up or go for a new one. I made the mistake and tried keeping my 15 year old Yanmar and spend almost as much as the cost of a new engine over the course of three years, just to bite the bullet and buy a new one now. The price quoted to you is almost half a new engine and rest assured during the process of changing the block they will find more stuff which needs replacment or ($$) attention

 

[Gordonmc]

Check Ebay. There was a new Lombardini 13hp that might do if the bids don't go silly.

 

[tr7v8]

I think the Granda sierra engine would have an XUD type code as it was a Pug engine originally, however I meant the XUD6 & 9 which I beleive are the Pug 205/305/405 lump used in 1.7 and 1.9 forms. These were the mutts nuts in the 70s and 80s and are still good lumps now.
The 2.3 I think is the one from the 504/505 Pugs and is a fairly old design and derives from the 203/204, avoid the 2.1 lump used in some Grannies as I hear Ford swopped a lot under warranty for 2.3s.

All this is from memory so some could be dodgy.

Jim
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[Forbsie]

Thanks for that Jim, I am hoping to take one out of mine next week and was hoping to flog it. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[vyv_cox]

Have a look at http://www.metalock.co.uk/casting.a...you, but could well be worth an enquiry. Vyv

 

[lauradee]

£1500 ?? for second hand block???

the 4108s have been built in their thousands and has driven anything from a welding set to a tractor in poland.
do a search in google and find a second hand dealer, cor blimey, my mate has just bought a complete merc 5 cyl van engine for only £600.
search on commercial vehicule used engines.
forget about stitching etc, last resort jobby and never all that succesful in the long term and you will never be confident in it.
rebuild will be a lot cheaper if you can do it yourself.
stu