Are we being ripped off

maxi77 said:
A guy I used to work with collected fake Rolex watches. Unlike most other fakes ther was a real pecking order with the realy good ones costing much more than many every day real brands. Apart from the price you really neaded to know what you were looking for to see they were fakes.
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30 years ago, I worked with a guy who wore a Rolex. But he got it in a rather unusual manner - he picked it up on the Greenland Ice Cap! Apparently, the best guess is that Rolex watches were issued to the Sirius Patrol, and someone must have dropped it.

In those days, Rolex were still leaders in matters of water-proofing and shock-proofing; the movements were otherwise fairly ordinary chronometer grade movements.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
(snip).

"ripped off" is when you buy the fake Musto or the fake Rolex.

(snip)
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No it's not, unless you pay Musto/Rolex price for the fake.

I paid $5 for a fake Rolex in Manila. I knew exactly what I was buying & got well more than 5 dollars worth of laughs out of it before it finally expired some years later. I was not ripped off, or cheated, I had a bargain joke watch, which did actually keep good time.

In fact, even Rolex didn't lose out cos I wouldn't waste my limited pocket money on such silly poser toys.
 
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I hadn't realised that I should have a fancy watch in order to go sailing.
I must have been away when they covered that lesson at the school sailing club 45 years ago!
 
I paid £5 for a fake Rolex. Damned thing's battery ran out after two years. Once bitten twice shy, next time I'll pay £5000 for one that winds itself up. Mind you, at my age batteries might be a better idea.
 
All this roles stuff still doesn't get away from the fact that it's too expensive.
Dylans right we are rich to pay these extortionate prices.

Bob
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Each to his own I guess. I have 3 Omega watches stuffed in a safety deposit box because as mechanicals they arent reliable or accurate . I suspect they arent even good examples of mechanical watches but you would know better than me. For sailing I use a Seiko kinetic divers watch - the second one bought a couple of years ago after its 20 odd year old predecessor was nicked from the marina showers in St P Port. It had withstood even a car running over it without a scratch when the clasp came undone whilst riding my motorbike.
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I have 3 Omegas all going strong and all serviced regularly like a car ...

I am also very fortunate to have bucket loads of free top end yacht kit so can say hand on heart they are all excellent despite not taking any care of them.

I can only relate it to skiing kit I have been down the cheap route I now ski in considerable comfort and warmth in kit that costs many hundreds but I know I should have bought first time round ...
 
No one needs a Rolex to go sailing, that is for sure ... but if time is precious why not use it wisely and watch it nicely?
I watch it slip past via the dial of an old Submariner. Daring to confound some of our esteemed horologists, the mechanicals of a Roller are in actual fact very fine peices of miniature clockwork engineering which do not require software updates or "progress" to remain in great demand with watch enthusiasts all around the world. Rolex is a fantastically successful private famiy concern who continue to prosper precisely because they know their business and they do innovate- the latest Sea Dweller for example is as fine a marine chronometer as has ever been built. When I bought my Roller it cost more than my first 3 boats and my first car combined. Since then it has had one service in 26 years and keeps superbly accurate time year in, year out. Rather than being a fashion folly, it is now worth so much more than when I bought it that I could sell it on and buy another small cruiser with the change as well as pocket more cash than I would have earned if I had stuck the money in a bank. Buying that watch was time well spent methinks, wish I had bought a dozen!
As for expensive Oilies, the same cannot quite be said - my ancient HL Ocean Racer Suit cost a bomb but is now nearly worn out and doubt it would raise sixpence at a boat jumble. But was it a better deal than buying cheaper oilies and replacing them every few years? Well I have both cheap oilies and top price ones and for some reason when the cold water is coming at me horizontal I always prefer to snuggle into the expensive kit. Pity they don't have offshore floating chandleries where you could pull into in heavy weather and buy better oilies when you regret not having splashed out on the best you could afford.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 
Hi agree but, I am not discussing the better options that top grade gear provides, what I am saying, they are too expensive!
Am I right in saying 90% of them are made in China or far east?










Pleiades said:
No one needs a Rolex to go sailing, that is for sure ... but if time is precious why not use it wisely and watch it nicely?
I watch it slip past via the dial of an old Submariner. Daring to confound some of our esteemed horologists, the mechanicals of a Roller are in actual fact very fine peices of miniature clockwork engineering which do not require software updates or "progress" to remain in great demand with watch enthusiasts all around the world. Rolex is a fantastically successful private famiy concern who continue to prosper precisely because they know their business and they do innovate- the latest Sea Dweller for example is as fine a marine chronometer as has ever been built. When I bought my Roller it cost more than my first 3 boats and my first car combined. Since then it has had one service in 26 years and keeps superbly accurate time year in, year out. Rather than being a fashion folly, it is now worth so much more than when I bought it that I could sell it on and buy another small cruiser with the change as well as pocket more cash than I would have earned if I had stuck the money in a bank. Buying that watch was time well spent methinks, wish I had bought a dozen!
As for expensive Oilies, the same cannot quite be said - my ancient HL Ocean Racer Suit cost a bomb but is now nearly worn out and doubt it would raise sixpence at a boat jumble. But was it a better deal than buying cheaper oilies and replacing them every few years? Well I have both cheap oilies and top price ones and for some reason when the cold water is coming at me horizontal I always prefer to snuggle into the expensive kit. Pity they don't have offshore floating chandleries where you could pull into in heavy weather and buy better oilies when you regret not having splashed out on the best you could afford.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
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Ripping off Oilies

Henri Lloyd is a British Company founded by Henri Strzelecki a Polish war veteran. We have a claim to fame in that my good lady was kissed by the said gentleman when buying one of his early jackets at the Southampton Boat Show umpteen years ago -presumably all part of the service.
My Ocean Racer set was made in Poland but my recent HL Goretex jackets have been made in China so perhaps the economics of making them anywhere in Europe are unsustainable. No reason why "made in China" should necessitate being ripped off - my Chinese made jackets are super quality and up to spec in every respect. Apple presumably are satisfied with the quality of their bits made there - all depends on how rigourous the spec is and the quality control/inspection to ensure compliance. No doubt the Voldemort anchor saga shows how not to do it.
I think a rip off definitely occurs when you pay top dollar for something that underperforms but I also get hacked off when I pay moderate money for rubbish. Generally most of my rubbish kit has been at the cheaper end of the price ranges. How you define perormance is up to the individual and I think that for oilies one has such a range of choice at all prices that no reason to pay more than you want for a particular set of features. I ind that it is the fine design details which help keep the sea out and comfort in - cuffs, visor, hoods, etc. This detailing does not come cheap to manufacture and production runs are relatively small - hence the high price. The performance advantage over a mid price set may be marginal and for day sailing and summer over-nighting mid value sets are fine. For something like a 6 day solo passage to the Western Isles from the Solent then the performance edge given by the uber expensive sets does go some way to soften the blow on the wallet.
I would add that I have no truck with laundering and pampering my oilies- their job is to look after me - so they get rammed in the wet locker after use. Despite that my HL Ocean Goretex gear (never been washed) is still 100% waterproof after 12 + years. The cheaper and newer mid price TP3 Reflex trousers subjected to the same treatment have not fared so well and I had to re-seal the seams in places where the tape had broken down resulting in an unpleasantly drowned harse. So parts of the anatomy definitely prefer my wallet to take the hit.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 
Have you seen the price of Musto HPX Oilies recently?
I was staggered to see that a matching top and trousers is now over £1000!!!
Based on my little experience in the clothing industry I suspect (although I don't know) that the factory gate price is close to £100.
 
Talulah said:
Have you seen the price of Musto HPX Oilies recently?
I was staggered to see that a matching top and trousers is now over £1000!!!
Based on my little experience in the clothing industry I suspect (although I don't know) that the factory gate price is close to £100.
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It's irrelevant what the cost of the item is to Musto. The factory won't sell you a custom fitted set and certainly won't replace them for no cost to you when they break. The simple fact is that if you buy cheap you buy twice and those who spend the extra understand this.
The same applies in many industries - I can buy a lighter for under a pound which will be reliable yet my zippo has a lifetime guarantee that they will fix it for free if it ceases to work. My iPad cost me considerably more than the sum of its parts but when I had a problem I popped into the Apple shop and they immediately swapped it for a new boxed one.

There are many posts on these forums from people who have had old Musto kit replaced without charge when it leaked, sometimes when it was the fault of the owner. I have yet to see a post where Aldi or Screwfix have done the same with anything other than the return of a new item.
Buy the cheap one if you feel it's better value but don't expect the same level of support when you have a problem and don't tell us we're being ripped off just because we spent the extra :)
 
By the look of it you can afford top quality oilies, apple ipads etc but us ordinary folk can't, it still doesn't get over the fact that it's over priced as a poster said the factory is getting peanuts but the firms are coining it in.
Its never right to have Chinese workers get so little and we pay so much, surely the balance is wrong?











lustyd said:
It's irrelevant what the cost of the item is to Musto. The factory won't sell you a custom fitted set and certainly won't replace them for no cost to you when they break. The simple fact is that if you buy cheap you buy twice and those who spend the extra understand this.
The same applies in many industries - I can buy a lighter for under a pound which will be reliable yet my zippo has a lifetime guarantee that they will fix it for free if it ceases to work. My iPad cost me considerably more than the sum of its parts but when I had a problem I popped into the Apple shop and they immediately swapped it for a new boxed one.

There are many posts on these forums from people who have had old Musto kit replaced without charge when it leaked, sometimes when it was the fault of the owner. I have yet to see a post where Aldi or Screwfix have done the same with anything other than the return of a new item.
Buy the cheap one if you feel it's better value but don't expect the same level of support when you have a problem and don't tell us we're being ripped off just because we spent the extra :)
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robertj said:
By the look of it you can afford top quality oilies, apple ipads etc but us ordinary folk can't, it still doesn't get over the fact that it's over priced as a poster said the factory is getting peanuts but the firms are coining it in.
Its never right to have Chinese workers get so little and we pay so much, surely the balance is wrong?
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Firstly that person was guessing as to the factory cost of the item. They also did not take shipping the items all the way around the world into account. Neither was duty, tax, VAT taken into account. Running the company, marketing, design and development and customer support all cost money and are all the reasons why you all would very much like to buy the higher priced ones. As I said, there is no doubt that these items cost a lot of money but that does not make them a rip off and does not automatically make them overpriced.
 
Can't see what the problem is . Yellow Taylor Woodrow oily's tenner with logo on the back, green wellies nine quid . Pumps twenty quid. Thermals three for fifteen quid.
 
Crabman said:
Can't see what the problem is . Yellow Taylor Woodrow oily's tenner with logo on the back, green wellies nine quid . Pumps twenty quid. Thermals three for fifteen quid.
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Lol yes spot on! So would it be fair to say no lable worrior here?
 
lustyd said:
There are many posts on these forums from people who have had old Musto kit replaced without charge when it leaked, sometimes when it was the fault of the owner. I have yet to see a post where Aldi or Screwfix have done the same with anything other than the return of a new item.
Buy the cheap one if you feel it's better value but don't expect the same level of support when you have a problem and don't tell us we're being ripped off just because we spent the extra :)
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Aldi's return policy is exemplary, they will refund or replace with no quibbles. By nature of their business model they may not always be able to replace.
 
lustyd said:
Firstly that person was guessing as to the factory cost of the item. They also did not take shipping the items all the way around the world into account. Neither was duty, tax, VAT taken into account. Running the company, marketing, design and development and customer support all cost money and are all the reasons why you all would very much like to buy the higher priced ones. As I said, there is no doubt that these items cost a lot of money but that does not make them a rip off and does not automatically make them overpriced.
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It costs no more to ship, run the company, marketing, design etc for the cheaper oilies.
There are essentially two pricing models 1) Cost + profit, 2) What the market will pay
Assuming my assumption of £100 at the factory gate is correct then on the assumption the mid range were £20 to manufacture then you could in theory sell the higher quality jacket with just a £100 price difference. So yes, I consider the set for a £1000 to be taking the piss.
 
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