Are we all too keen to give our money to marinas during the pandemic?
- Thread starter James W
- Start date
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
I read that as they are looking at doing "something" depending on various things but then go on to say their parent company is the Welcome Trust and therefore their profits go to treatments for virus
Maybe in the future berth holders could fill in a gift aid declaration
Edit D&R's offering is a credit against each berth holder's account. Some will be able to use this to pay for boatyard services and the like but for others it will would be for next year's berthing charges
Maybe in the future berth holders could fill in a gift aid declaration
Edit D&R's offering is a credit against each berth holder's account. Some will be able to use this to pay for boatyard services and the like but for others it will would be for next year's berthing charges
FlyingGoose
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed , the Welcome trust do not buy Marinas becauset they make a shoe string profit , they buy profitable easy money businesses to support there workI read that as they are looking at doing "something" depending on various things but then go on to say their parent company is the Welcome Trust and therefore their profits go to treatments for virus
Maybe in the future berth holders could fill in a gift aid declaration
My hotels were owned by an American Investment arm of the US postal service , they are out for rich rewards ,cash rich businesses , so me thinks the marinas can handle a month of reduced fees ,
Yellow Ballad
Well-Known Member
I'm not defending marinas but I'm sure if you as a customer approached your marina and told them you had lost your job you can't make your monthly payment for 3 months or whatever (providing you've been a good customer) I would hope they would allow you a payment holiday.
I very nearly emailed my club to ask them not to cash my cheque if possible as my job isn't as secure as I was lead to believe but luckily at just over £200 for the year I thought I had the money and might as well get it out of the way. I wouldn't take my boat somewhere else because I didn't get chance to go sailing and kept it there anyway. It would certainly cost me more in the long run.
If my contract ran out and I wasn't renewing it I would certainly protest on paying any more if the marina stopped me taking my boat but it's a very dodgy area, marine law so I would tread carefully. I would class being evicted from the marina as an essential reason to move the boat if tgey allowed me to remove it.
I imagine marinas make their money from visitors and services, lift outs, masts etc, berths just cover the base. Again I'm not defending them, and offering x amount rebate from next year is a good loyalty strategy the truth is if you can't afford it then maybe you're living beyond your means?
I very nearly emailed my club to ask them not to cash my cheque if possible as my job isn't as secure as I was lead to believe but luckily at just over £200 for the year I thought I had the money and might as well get it out of the way. I wouldn't take my boat somewhere else because I didn't get chance to go sailing and kept it there anyway. It would certainly cost me more in the long run.
If my contract ran out and I wasn't renewing it I would certainly protest on paying any more if the marina stopped me taking my boat but it's a very dodgy area, marine law so I would tread carefully. I would class being evicted from the marina as an essential reason to move the boat if tgey allowed me to remove it.
I imagine marinas make their money from visitors and services, lift outs, masts etc, berths just cover the base. Again I'm not defending them, and offering x amount rebate from next year is a good loyalty strategy the truth is if you can't afford it then maybe you're living beyond your means?
James W
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, if you’re worried about £200 for a year’s club fees, then perhaps you’re the one living beyond your means?
I have enough savings to see me through, thank you for your concern. The question was, however, why aren’t marinas offering discounts when the service they provide is not accessible at the moment, and their costs (wages costs at least) are clearly less than they would usually be.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
OK, so it’s not strictly comparable but the wages bill for the holiday village I’m a director of is about 20% of the annual budget. We've furloughed one member of staff but the remainder are either working from home or at work. So the savings due to reduced labour costs are minimal (80% of one manual worker). Virtually all of the remaining costs are fixed, although we may be able to get a refund from our waste disposal company. And we’re not servicing any significant loans. I don’t see marinas as being much different except that they’re likely to have significant debts to service, so I don’t see where any refunds are going to come from.
James W
Well-Known Member
A balanced, fair and well put point.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
People are in different situations so no wonder they disagree.
Some might have planned to pay for a summer berth and now see that as unfair because they aren't allowed to actually use the boat.
I'm in a slightly different position- I was going to move the boat to my own mooring (cost= zero) for the summer. But she is now trapped in a marina with only a few weeks left on my berth contract. I never planned or budgeted for a summer berth, and of course nobody knows how long I will need the berth for. Personally I will be disappointed if the marina doesn't at least give me some sort of discount. It's tempting to go down the route of saying that there is no contract in place- I do not want my boat to be there- so if they threaten me with court action, what exactly are they trying to get enforced? I'm sure it wouldn't get that far but it would probably depend on just how much they are asking for.
Some might have planned to pay for a summer berth and now see that as unfair because they aren't allowed to actually use the boat.
I'm in a slightly different position- I was going to move the boat to my own mooring (cost= zero) for the summer. But she is now trapped in a marina with only a few weeks left on my berth contract. I never planned or budgeted for a summer berth, and of course nobody knows how long I will need the berth for. Personally I will be disappointed if the marina doesn't at least give me some sort of discount. It's tempting to go down the route of saying that there is no contract in place- I do not want my boat to be there- so if they threaten me with court action, what exactly are they trying to get enforced? I'm sure it wouldn't get that far but it would probably depend on just how much they are asking for.
Yellow Ballad
Well-Known Member
I do apologise my reply to this thread was not a personal reply to you but generally (I maybe didn't make that clear enough), no need to get personal towards me. I'm quite happy to admit I'm a shoestring sailor, but I sail within my means my boat can be kept for a year on a weeks pay at minimum wage. Thank you for your concern , but with 2 small children and a wife on maternity I was worried I would loose my job of 17 years (before the government retention scheme) and that money may have come in handy (and my club I'm sure would have been willing to allow a late/part payment), not that I should have to explain myself to you.
My point being in my first reply was you're still using the marina to park your boat, if anyone was getting into financial difficulties then maybe a personal call would buy them some leeway. I'm sure most people choose a marina for convenience so by moving your boat to another may cost you more even if it's just fuel/time.
I did say that a rebate is a good loyalty strategy from the marinas and maybe people may move to a marina that "looked after" their clients better during these times. We are still using the space wherever it is and however much it costs, it's not the marinas thats stopping us sailing it's the government.
I do sympathise with people in Kelpie's position, they shouldn't be forced to pay more if they had never planned/contracted to stop. Again as I said marine law is a dodgy one, holding debts on boats etc as in theory they're still using the marina services. I would certainly be writing a letter stating I wish to remove my boat on day x and if they hold my boat they do so at their cost but I'm not sure how that would play out. However I'm not sure I would be welcome back at that marina if I planned on using it next winter. I know of one commercial operator moving 2 boats in tow last week, so maybe this may be an option?
Unfortunately we're all going through difficult times and just because we can't do something we may have wanted to do doesn't mean we're not using services. Many boats sit unmoved in marinas year round but they're still filling a gap and paying for it.
FlyingGoose
Well-Known Member
I would suspect marine law has nothing to do with it , it is about contracts and services , which fall under consumer law , a marina is a boat park , no different to a caravan park , etc. And as well said by Yellow balllard , we are not all high value sailors , being trapped in a marina and not being able to move her to a cheaper mooring berth as summer comes in could be challenged legally if they charge you full storage rates , (challenging does not mean win or lose)
Perhaps those main stream marinas who have thousands of boats realise this and have pre thought that there is certainly a lot of high worth individuals with boats and all it takes is one to go to court, or if hundreds go , it is cheaper to offer discounts that paying out legal costs
Perhaps those main stream marinas who have thousands of boats realise this and have pre thought that there is certainly a lot of high worth individuals with boats and all it takes is one to go to court, or if hundreds go , it is cheaper to offer discounts that paying out legal costs
James W
Well-Known Member
Apologies for being a bit rude, i'd just woken from a very uncomfortable night in a tent in the garden with my 6 year old.
I'm in exactly the same situation as Kelpie, except with I have two boats, having bought a new one (to me) at precisely the wrong time! I had planned to take both boats to their summer homes (much cheaper), but am now stuck in the more expensive marina. I'm also in the same situation as you, but with three boys to entertain in a very modest garden, that now resembles a landfill site.
It is what it is, we will have to endure. I apologise for the post and wish you all the best......the Ballad is such a pretty boat.
Tintin
Well-Known Member
Have been a Premier customer for years - haven't had anything about a discount.
laika
Well-Known Member
Sorry still not seeing it. All I see is from post #16:
I didn't get that email but I presume it means "We'll give you a discount if the taxpayer pays for it". The bit later in the post which talks about their owners being the Welcome foundation seems to say "Any discount you press us for will mean money diverted from the fight against COVID-19". Shame they aren't still owned by Blackrock
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
The Environment Agency have got to be near the top of the No Leeway Pricing Chart.
Last year they charged full price £870 and reduced the access to 8 months - 4 months for mooring maintenance! I'm not sure what took them 4 months to do.
This year they have put the price up to £912 for the 12 months.
Then you have to pay Poole Harbour Dues on top at £92.52
Their response to questioning the price - Go look for something cheaper in the area.
Last year they charged full price £870 and reduced the access to 8 months - 4 months for mooring maintenance! I'm not sure what took them 4 months to do.
This year they have put the price up to £912 for the 12 months.
Then you have to pay Poole Harbour Dues on top at £92.52
Their response to questioning the price - Go look for something cheaper in the area.
Yellow Ballad
Well-Known Member
Hey, no hard feelings and all. I always work on the it's not how it's written, it's how it's read thing but I wasn't particularly clear I was generalising.
Good luck with the boys, mine are wearing me out! Hope you're able to move the boats or negotiate a cheaper rate.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Is paying a delivery skipper to move her a possibility?
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Sadly I don't see that resolving the issue- the boat is in Stornoway, I'm on Skye, and if I could find a Lewis-based skipper I would have to get them back home somehow. With Calmac closed to non-essential travel that won't be easy- it's basically the same problem that is stopping me from just doing it myself.
The Comhairle nan Eilian Siar harbours have also been closed to all leisure traffic except cases of distress- Stornoway is a separate entity but we have been told that access to the pontoons is now restricted to essential maintenance only.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
I agree With the op, Marinas are looking dubious on their charges....
1) they will be furloughing significant numbers of staff... ours almost everyone...
2) as leisure facilities i suspect they might also be getting rate rebates...
not all will be equal of course, but mine is a very old facility, and probably has no ongoing costs for the land beyond the rates..
so They are making significant savings...
the side issue to this is the fact that we are no longer able to actually use the place as intended when we took out the contract for a berth... implicit in that contract is the ability to use the boat on local waters.. 24/7 access is a big selling point for instance... HHA have banned leisure craft from the local waters full stop, never mind our own inability to get there.
so the basis for the charges are no longer valid... through no fault of either party... and thus the intention of the contract is no longer valid.... due to changes in law..
In legalese.. this is known as “frustration”.
I think if challenged, then some marinas, and the ones where The local harbour authority has banned leisure craft in particular , would be in trouble around that.
We are not paying for storage... we are paying for the access promised when we entered into the contract...
I think they need to be far more sensitive to the fact they are no longer able to provide the service the consumer is paying for, and they are making savings on their costs as a consequence ...
But we won’t press that of course, because they have our boats..
1) they will be furloughing significant numbers of staff... ours almost everyone...
2) as leisure facilities i suspect they might also be getting rate rebates...
not all will be equal of course, but mine is a very old facility, and probably has no ongoing costs for the land beyond the rates..
so They are making significant savings...
the side issue to this is the fact that we are no longer able to actually use the place as intended when we took out the contract for a berth... implicit in that contract is the ability to use the boat on local waters.. 24/7 access is a big selling point for instance... HHA have banned leisure craft from the local waters full stop, never mind our own inability to get there.
so the basis for the charges are no longer valid... through no fault of either party... and thus the intention of the contract is no longer valid.... due to changes in law..
In legalese.. this is known as “frustration”.
I think if challenged, then some marinas, and the ones where The local harbour authority has banned leisure craft in particular , would be in trouble around that.
We are not paying for storage... we are paying for the access promised when we entered into the contract...
I think they need to be far more sensitive to the fact they are no longer able to provide the service the consumer is paying for, and they are making savings on their costs as a consequence ...
But we won’t press that of course, because they have our boats..
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Ah, yes, bit of a non-starter that.
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter really is were all bloody skint or the cash has simply stopped rolling in. No one would moan if money was not an issue, cos you all know why the marinas have closed. who told them to, and don't forget were not allowed to travel anyway. Yes they have had a 25,000 chq, no rates for a year, so a saving of £1000 per month. but that's peanuts. business have to make money.
If you want it to happen earlier, then write to the RYA and put your case in numbers. we could do it here actually. On a side note I do hope I don't get a harbour dues bill cos my boat is not on the water and wont be for the foreseeable.
Steveeasy
If you want it to happen earlier, then write to the RYA and put your case in numbers. we could do it here actually. On a side note I do hope I don't get a harbour dues bill cos my boat is not on the water and wont be for the foreseeable.
Steveeasy