Are we about to see a lot more US made yachts in the UK?

[Halcyon Yachts]

With this change in policy, are we about to see a lot more US-made yachts in the UK?

UK eases tariffs on US-made boats

Pete

 

[laika]

With this change in policy, are we about to see a lot more US-made yachts in the UK?

You mean a return to the number of us-made boats we saw prior to 2018? I don’t think we’ve really thought of AWBs as Ben/Jen/Bav/Cat

 

[RobbieW]

The other inhibitor is compliance with whatever RCD becomes in our new economy

 

[robmcg]

The other inhibitor is compliance with whatever RCD becomes in our new economy

Yes, it was my understanding that the added costs of RCD compliance was the major impediment to US manufacturers making in roads into the EU market (with some notable exceptions like Island Packet).

 

[oldgit]

A reduction of 25% in tariffs on imports from 3000kms away in the West and a 20% increase on tariffs, 30 kms to the East.
Some sort of logic in here presumably. ?

 

[Tranona]

A reduction of 25% in tariffs on imports from 3000kms away in the West and a 20% increase on tariffs, 30 kms to the East.
Some sort of logic in here presumably. ?

That is a total misrepresentation. There are no tariffs on import of boats from the EU. The removal of the 25% only takes us back to the situation as it was pre 2018 when imports from the US were negligible anyway. VAT is exactly the same whether the boat is from the EU or US .

 

[Black Sheep]

VAT is exactly the same whether the boat is from the EU or US .

Indeed - but that's not the comparison that oldgit was making.
I believe he was looking at the increase in VAT for European second hand boats in the last couple of years, when it's gone from 0% to 20%. And there used to be a large and healthy market.
In the US case, we've removed a 25% levy. (ie we've reduced total price by 20%). But as you point out, imports were negligible even before the levy.
I believe that OG's point is that a 20% cost increase over a substantial market rather overshadows a 20% cost decrease for a negligible market.

 

[Tranona]

Indeed - but that's not the comparison that oldgit was making.
I believe he was looking at the increase in VAT for European second hand boats in the last couple of years, when it's gone from 0% to 20%. And there used to be a large and healthy market.
In the US case, we've removed a 25% levy. (ie we've reduced total price by 20%). But as you point out, imports were negligible even before the levy.
I believe that OG's point is that a 20% cost increase over a substantial market rather overshadows a 20% cost decrease for a negligible market.

I know. Just completely irrelevant comment on this thread though. He is not comparig
I understand that but his post is irrelevant to this subject
He just uses every opportunity to bang on about it as if nobody else knows about the consequences of leaving the EU.

He is not comparing like with like as his beef is about paying VAT on used boats from the EU - which also applies to used boats from the US. There is no 20% "tariff" on boats from the EU and now with this change the US is on an equal footing with the EU as far as imports into the UK

The only US boats that sell in any volume in the UK are smallish MOBOs with outboard or sterndrive power and no doubt they will come back if the builders think it worthwhile to get them certified to the RCD (for the EU) or UKCA for UK.

 

[James_Calvert]

Is there a tariff on second hand boats from the US?

 

[Tranona]

Is there a tariff on second hand boats from the US?

No, only VAT. But rather moot point as the inability of US boats to meet UKCA mean it is not economic to import boats from the US unless it it were originally CE marked and might be made to comply, although engines will be the killer on older boats.

 

[oldgit]

That is a total misrepresentation. There are no tariffs on import of boats from the EU.

So nothing to pay on privately importing a boat from the EU into the UK in 2022. ?
Presume there is something in print to confirm this, link would be helpful.

Pre Brexit.
Buy a boat from EU pay for transport and wait for your boat to arrive.
Post Brexit.
Buy a boat in EU then pay for it to be transported and then add an additional 20% to the total to legally get it across 30kms of Le Manche.
If there is any legal method to avoid paying the additional 20% would be very pleased to hear about it.
Did wonder when you have to pay the additional 20% ,who works it out, and to whom the cheque has to be paid.
No doubt this will come at a cost or is it left up to the buyer of the boat ?

 

[Tranona]

So nothing to pay on privately importing a boat from the EU into the UK in 2022. ?
Presume there is something in print to confirm this, link would be helpful.

Pre Brexit.
Buy a boat from EU pay for transport and wait for your boat to arrive.
Post Brexit.
Buy a boat in EU then pay for it to be transported and then add an additional 20% to the total to legally get it across 30kms of Le Manche.
If there is any legal method to avoid paying the additional 20% would be very pleased to hear about it.
Did wonder when you have to pay the additional 20% ,who works it out, and to whom the cheque has to be paid.
No doubt this will come at a cost or is it left up to the buyer of the boat ?

But this is not a tariff which is what the original post was about. The nature of the costs for importing a boat from the EU is the same as from the US.

Your first sentence is nonsense. Nobody ever suggested there was nothing to pay - just not a "tariff" of the type that did apply to the US and now doesn't.

You (and everybody else) knows the rules changed on 1/1/2021 in respect of importing from the EU. The new rules are available from HMRC - there is nothing secret. Amazing given how this subject seems to dominate your thoughts that you have not bothered to find out.

 

[Black Sheep]

Amazing given how this subject seems to dominate your thoughts that you have not bothered to find out.

I think there's no need to stoop to personal abuse.

You and oldgit are using the term "tariff" in very different ways. You're using it in a very specific technical way as defined by the WTO and GATT. Oldgit is using the term in a much more generalist way to indicate any compulsory tax or surcharge that's payable on imported goods. We dealt with this in #6 (when you attacked him for saying there were tariffs when you assert there are none) and #7 (when I clarified that I thought he was including VAT).

In #8 you seemed to say that you understood this, but thought OG's earlier post was irrelevant. My suggestion is that if you feel a post is irrelevant to a discussion, maybe you should just ignore it? Else you're complicit in drawing the thread off what you think should be the topic.

Back on topic - will the 20% drop in taxes on US yachts make a big difference to their market share in UK? I have no views on the New market, but it looks as though for the used boat market:
* there should be slightly greater demand as EU boats are subject to an extra 20% tax that wasn't there before
* but the US ones will be subject to RCD (a non-tariff barrier)
* the US share was always negligible

So my analysis is that there may be a small increase in some specialised boats. But nothing big. Unless we actually do some of the deregulation that's supposed to be possible now, and scrap the RCD rules.

 

[pandos]

But this is not a tariff which is what the original post was about. The nature of the costs for importing a boat from the EU is the same as from the US.

Your first sentence is nonsense. Nobody ever suggested there was nothing to pay - just not a "tariff" of the type that did apply to the US and now doesn't.

You (and everybody else) knows the rules changed on 1/1/2021 in respect of importing from the EU. The new rules are available from HMRC - there is nothing secret. Amazing given how this subject seems to dominate your thoughts that you have not bothered to find out.

Your reply is an attack about a difference which is without substance.

Whether you pay a pound to the government and call it a tarriff or vat is really irrelevant unless you are particularly pedantic.

 

[oldgit]

But this is not a tariff which is what the original post was about. The nature of the costs for importing a boat from the EU is the same as from the US.

Your first sentence is nonsense. Nobody ever suggested there was nothing to pay - just not a "tariff" of the type that did apply to the US and now doesn't.

You (and everybody else) knows the rules changed on 1/1/2021 in respect of importing from the EU. The new rules are available from HMRC - there is nothing secret. Amazing given how this subject seems to dominate your thoughts that you have not bothered to find out.

All this must have been written on the other side of that bus.
Going to guess that virtually nobody was aware that Brexit was going to considerably add to the cost of importing a boat from our nearest neighbours, other than a tiny minority who have a pecuniary interest in the importation of boats.
It now costs more for private individual to import a boat into the UK and with added bureaucracy.

A short while ago ,member in our club thought he had sold his Broom 33 to a buyer from Eire.
The buyer flew over to view and test the boat. Hands were shaken. Four folks present, the buyer, the seller, the broker (from a EU wide brokerage )and me.
The sale fell through a day or two later when the buyer discovered he was going to have pay 20% on in addtion to the agreed purchase price . In this instance about £17,000 pounds or 20.000 Euros
How on earth all four of us missed this so widely announced 20 % hike remains a mystery to this day.

 

[ashtead]

Back to topic apart from a Hinckley and I guess type owned by captain Tom and Ros I wonder which us boats might attract around 40 foot based on OP deliveries?

 

[Tranona]

Your reply is an attack about a difference which is without substance.

Whether you pay a pound to the government and call it a tarriff or vat is really irrelevant unless you are particularly pedantic.

The thread is about the possible impact of the removal of 25% duty on US imports - which was absolutely nothing to do with having to pay VAT on imports of used boats from the EU. The duty was imposed by the EU in 2018 as part of the spat with Donald Trump over illegal state aid. The EU have now removed the duty and UK have followed suit. VAT is still payable on imports from the US. "Duty" and "Tariff" are the same thing and very different from VAT.

Hope it is clear now why I wanted to make the point - it is not pedantry.

 

[Tranona]

All this must have been written on the other side of that bus.
Going to guess that virtually nobody was aware that Brexit was going to considerably add to the cost of importing a boat from our nearest neighbours, other than a tiny minority who have a pecuniary interest in the importation of boats.
It now costs more for private individual to import a boat into the UK and with added bureaucracy.

A short while ago ,member in our club thought he had sold his Broom 33 to a buyer from Eire.
The buyer flew over to view and test the boat. Hands were shaken. Four folks present, the buyer, the seller, the broker (from a EU wide brokerage )and me.
The sale fell through a day or two later when the buyer discovered he was going to have pay 20% on in addtion to the agreed purchase price . In this instance about £17,000 pounds or 20.000 Euros
How on earth all four of us missed this so widely announced 20 % hike remains a mystery to this day.

I am sorry, it was pretty clear that leaving the EU and the single market would result in many changes including becoming a separate customs area. The consequences would bring new costs and benefits. I doubt that specific knowledge of the consequences for importing secondhand boats would have had any impact on the way people voted in the referendum. The number of people buying secondhand boats in the EU before leaving was tiny - the trade was almost always the other way and will continue to be tiny.

You have recounted your story before and my reaction is the same - I am amazed that seller and buyer were so ignorant of the costs involved in buying in one customs area for use in another.

This is all of course irrelevant to the subject of this thread!

 

[Blueboatman]

Well, don’t Beneteau and Bavaria have assembly plants in the us ?
What would the car industry do ??

 

[ashtead]

I’m not certain I would take Ford as a model though for the uk markets.