Are UK marinas too small?

[the-drifter]

I would like to see a more open Marinas, where berth holders buy a share not a pontoon, this way it is the Marina intestet to make sure that the Marina can accommodate most but not all..! sailing is getting bigger not smaller, and there is a supply and demand in the UK, if there was a piece of land and enough shareholder i would like to be part of build your own Marina.

A simple one for me is Boat lift, if i could place a crane at someones yard, i would only charge £100 for the lift and scrub, regardless of size of boat, and that it was within the limits of the crane. how they charge £300 each way is beyond me

 

[Nostrodamus]

Try some Med marinas where they are asking in excess of 1,000 euros for a haul in and out!
Add to that the fact you cannot work on your own boat or live aboard it and you are well and truly stuffed!

 

[Malish]

I think that apart from length another problem is width
I am told that the latest Hanse 31 ft is 300mm wider than the earlier ones.
In Bradwell marina I was only able to have a berth when one wide enough came available.
Now with even wider boats that must be even more of a problem

Marinas often renew the fingers of pontoons & can make them longer, but dislike all the work involved in making the gaps wider as for one thing it reduces the number of boats. Plus the locating piles make this difficult

Similar elsewhere, I've just moved from Gillingham (nice and snug) to Suffolk Yacht Harbour, I assumed that there would be a waiting list at Suffolk for a 34' boat, but not for an old school one with a beam of 9'6"... A berth was readily found next to a more lardy 36' boat, no way a modern 34' boat would have fitted.

 

[the-drifter]

there will always be expensive marina, maybe a suggestion is to only have those who hold a qualification via the RYA. i am thinking outside the box, as it does not need to be as expensive as it is. bring it back to reality. to moor your boat oalongside a piece of wood should not cost £4kpa. i dont see the value. ( welcome to boating) i would just like to see where my money is being spent. or am i being unrealistic

 

[mlthomas]

Some will be but does some of this come down to passage planning? if you know where you are going then you know what to expect when you arrive.

 

[the-drifter]

#
+1

 

[pampas]

I don't understand why the local councils have not tapped into EU money for such projects, the French seem to be able to gain access to funds to undertake these sorts of projects.

Think you will find that the fluffy ear`d winkle lives on that part of the coast whilst Falmouth has Mearle beds hence no dredging.
But I agree with what you propose.

 

[Seajet]

Surely the Falmouth Working Boats do their bit every winter - byelaws saying ' has to be done under sail ' so they do a bit just to keep it going ?

Any proposal to build a new marina / port anywhere in the UK energises a huge NIMBY resistance, even in places which would obviously benefit hugely !

Portpatrick in SW Scotland is a case in point, it's a lovely place with brilliant places to eat, the Crown on the seafront and the Fernhill just up the hill offer fantastic food.

Also lovely walks along the coastal path taking in old castles etc.

There was a project to develop a marina there a while ago, which would have been a huge financial boost for the great locals, but it never happened.

Portpatrick is a vital stragic spot for boats coming or going to Ireland, and gets lots of visitors, who currently have to keep a wary eye out being berthed alongside a pretty exposed wall.

This place - despite the entrance with strong tides and rocks - is just begging for someone with the balls to invest in a marina; the Victorians did, with a steamer port, and this is the 21st Century FFS !

Lots of other places like this.

 

[Tranona]

Most marinas up here have "small boat" sections, often next to the shore, for things up to - typically - 6m or so. Normally used for day boats, but a few of the titchier yachts can fit in - Port Bannatyne has a Fantasie 19, a Skipper 17 and a Leisure 17 in that section, for example.



Hmm. Interesting. Is that perhaps because your club marina is cheaper than a commercial one and hasn't priced out the small fry? As a matter of interest, what are the smaller boats - do you have a fleet of Sonatas, for example?

50 or so YW Dayboats, 20 R19s (Club one design). marina was designed to hold club members' boats when the new ferry terminal displaced most of our swinging moorings (and shoreside facilities), so crams in the most boats possible in the space. inevitably over time the size of boats has increased, hence the tight berths for bigger boats. We also have 60 swinging moorings and many of the bigger boats are on those.

We are however, in an almost unique situation in having a 999 year lease on the haven and own the freehold of the land side, so can run it for the benefit of members - not that all members agree with the way it is run! Leads to interesting debates at AGMs.

 

[Daydream believer]

I

A simple one for me is Boat lift, if i could place a crane at someones yard, i would only charge £100 for the lift and scrub, regardless of size of boat, and that it was within the limits of the crane. how they charge £300 each way is beyond me

I hope you do not decide to go into business for yourself
How do you think you would recover £ 100K for the boat lift to lift a wide range of boats ( not just yours) provide steam cleaner, jet wash area with disposal services for foul water, health & safety regs & compliance, staff training, water supply, electric supply, 2 blokes to do the job for 1.5 hours, boat to move yours to the lift area not to mention the ancilliary construction for the boat lift to operate t. insurance for the awkward owner who reckons you have jet washed his seacocks away or ruined his log which he forgot to retract prior to lift. Oh & I forgot the invoicing along with staff & the berk who does a runner without paying
i think £ 300 for a lift & jet wash is not unreasonable in the circumstances, although there are a few who do it for £ 200-00 & that is good

 

[Seajet]

Have to agree with all the above, it's a minefield !

Answer is a decent sailing club which will sort this all out for free.

 

[Tranona]

I hope you do not decide to go into business for yourself
How do you think you would recover £ 100K for the boat lift to lift a wide range of boats ( not just yours) provide steam cleaner, jet wash area with disposal services for foul water, health & safety regs & compliance, staff training, water supply, electric supply, 2 blokes to do the job for 1.5 hours, boat to move yours to the lift area not to mention the ancilliary construction for the boat lift to operate t. insurance for the awkward owner who reckons you have jet washed his seacocks away or ruined his log which he forgot to retract prior to lift. Oh & I forgot the invoicing along with staff & the berk who does a runner without paying
i think £ 300 for a lift & jet wash is not unreasonable in the circumstances, although there are a few who do it for £ 200-00 & that is good

Just paid for lift, pressure wash and relaunch. £60.31 (summer price) for a 37'. Shows the benefit of a club owned marina and why I am choosing Coppercoat for my new boat. Full price (haul out period) is about £78. The club generates significant surplus on the marina and yard charges which is ploughed back into the facilities (after the repayments on the loan to buy the marina).

 

[Tranona]

It was interesting in Portugal when we moored our mono hull alongside a small cat. He was paying one and a half times yet we were wider than his cat and paying the normal rate.

That is why some marinas charge by area (L*B). Whichever charging system you use there will always be some people who feel penalised.

 

[Seven Spades]

Most people are aspirational and when the french and germans made 36' boat affordable it is quite natural for people to want the space and comfort. Our first boat was a 36' plastic fantastic and it was the right boat at the time with three small children we were able to separate them into different cabins... joy. yes there are pros and cons, not least sailing performance, costs and cruising area. So I don't think it is correct to say that people are buying boats that are too bog people are free to make their own life decisions. Marinas need to adapt to demand.

 

[Tranona]

Marinas need to adapt to demand.

It also works the other way round - it is the growth of marinas, particularly deep water that helps make owning such a boat feasible. Much less attractive for many if kept on a swinging mooring and impractical on a drying one.

 

[charles_reed]

I think that the Mediterranean mass charter market is driving the size of boats - a quick assessment of lengths moored up here in Messolonghi (and most are privately owned) puts the 80% median @ between 35-40 feet.
Certainly Chios marina, only 6 years old, has inadequate lanes between mooring pontoons (remember side-on mooring is the exception) and use RIBs as parking tugs.
UK is uniquely short-boat biassed and with no indigenous volume sailboat builders will have to buy the products designed for other waters.
So, short answer, Yes!!

 

[Nostrodamus]

I think that the Mediterranean mass charter market is driving the size of boats - a quick assessment of lengths moored up here in Messolonghi (and most are privately owned) puts the 80% median @ between 35-40 feet.
Certainly Chios marina, only 6 years old, has inadequate lanes between mooring pontoons (remember side-on mooring is the exception) and use RIBs as parking tugs.
UK is uniquely short-boat biassed and with no indigenous volume sailboat builders will have to buy the products designed for other waters.
So, short answer, Yes!!

Charles, You make a point I did not think about. Most Med marinas will send a chap out in a rib who will be there to take your lines, pass you the lazy line and when the need occurs to use his dinghy as a tug boat pushing and holding you in to the right space. This is great if you have a long keeled boat who would rather head for the local Lidle rather than the mooring space. This also means the marina can be tighter but they seem to be built with wider lanes and stronger lazy lines for bigger boats. Of course you pay more for it though.
It would be good if UK marinas were as helpful and always sent someone out to help you in, especially of windy days.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Portpatrick in SW Scotland is a case in point, it's a lovely place with brilliant places to eat, the Crown on the seafront and the Fernhill just up the hill offer fantastic food.

Also lovely walks along the coastal path taking in old castles etc.

There was a project to develop a marina there a while ago, which would have been a huge financial boost for the great locals, but it never happened.

Almost certainly can't. The pontoon hasn't been invented which could cope with Portpatrick in a strong westerly, and in any case there is stuff all room in the harbour as it is. It could certainly be improved - I'd vote for floating mooring points running up and down rails on the walls together with better ladders - but a marina ain't going to happen.

This place - despite the entrance with strong tides and rocks - is just begging for someone with the balls to invest in a marina; the Victorians did, with a steamer port, and this is the 21st Century FFS !

The Victorian steamer port failed - the Smeaton extensions to Rennie's breakwaters (or was it the other way round) were destroyed by the first winter storm after they were completed. The Portpatrick to Donaghadee crossing was replaced by Stranraer to NI as soon as steamships - which could reliably make it up Loch Ryan - came along.

It will be interesting to see if anything happens at Drummore. Last I heard the council were proposing to adopt it as a port and wrest control from the trust which seemed to control it, but that was a while ago and, like all councils, D&G is skint. I think they are putting what recreational boating investment they can scrape together into Stranraer.

 

[JumbleDuck]

50 or so YW Dayboats, 20 R19s (Club one design). marina was designed to hold club members' boats when the new ferry terminal displaced most of our swinging moorings (and shoreside facilities), so crams in the most boats possible in the space. inevitably over time the size of boats has increased, hence the tight berths for bigger boats. We also have 60 swinging moorings and many of the bigger boats are on those.

We are however, in an almost unique situation in having a 999 year lease on the haven and own the freehold of the land side, so can run it for the benefit of members - not that all members agree with the way it is run! Leads to interesting debates at AGMs.

Ta. Sounds good.

 

[JumbleDuck]

An issue which has not - I think - been raised is the improved manoeuvrability of boats over the years. My 26' of long keel would be - even in more expert hands than mine - less handy than a modern 35 footer, which leads to an interesting conflict of interest. I need space to turn but don't want to pay for long berths; the chap with the spin-on-a-sixpence job needs the berth but doesn't want to pay for the space between them.