Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

[laika]

Knob

what a ****.

tossers

I would have gone alongside the other vessel, rafted to him [...] Especially if I had my other prop and hooker as crew!

I have a tendency to be a little too direct at times and as a 19 stone ex rugby forward with a face and build reflecting that history I can unintentionally be a little intimidating at times.

Given that many in a younger generation might assume the best in people until that assumption was no longer viable and then just say "sh!t happens" , get on with things that matter and let karma sort the rest out...do you think such trendy liberal attitudes might be what's causing these declining standards?

 

[Baddox]

So am I.

+1 Now I'm curious to know more.

 

[Aja]

Our worst experience in the canal was with four Scottish bumblies who pushed passed as as we were entering at Ardrishaig.

Once inside the sea lock, they then told us that two people couldn't possibly take a boat through. We'd done it many times before.

It turned out that even four of them on board they we incapable of controlling their warps or their yacht. After a couple of locks we decided to avoid the possibility of a collision by tying up and letting these clowns get away through on their own.

Sadly, that boat was flying a RHYC burgee. Their behaviour and boat handling fell below the standards that I would expect from that club.

Donald
I wasn't aware that the RHYC required a certain standard of seamanship from their members
Donald

 

[LittleSister]

No idea why there is a problem , no rules of the seas were broken

Manoeuvre described seems to me contrary to -
Rule 2 - Precaution of ordinary seamanship or the special circumstances of the case.
Rule 13 - Overtaking vessel to keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

 

[Dutch01527]

Given that I started the thread even I am getting a little bored by the debate.

You had to be there but the reality is there was no possible misinterpretation, some guy thought it was ok to steam past at c7 knots and come to an abrupt stop 50 yards in front of me and cause me to manoeuvre to avoid him because he wanted the safe ancourage spot.

I have not claimed that that broke any of the collision regulations just that it was bad manners and arrogant, boorish behaviour.

No big deal, I did not react and anchored elsewhere. I would not do that to anyone but obviously an significant number of people on this forum think that is ok. Reverting to my northern rugby player roots, the guy was an arrogant prat with no seamanship skills and anyone who behaves or advocates behaving in a similar way lessens the appeal of our hobby.

The two other boats who left full navigation steaming lights on when anchored are simply incompetent.

 

[Poecheng]

Very interesting thread as the OP and the various responses display such a variety in the human nature.I have noticed that it doesn't take long before any OP complaining, however gently or reasonably or with justification, about anything is told they are mistaken by about post 10 and wholly in the wrong by about #30.I think the OP to a large extent answered his own question by his own mannerly behaviour in the face of serious provocation in the first situation; despite the contraints in my own situation (wife who would deplore a scene, profession and being a short ar*e) I am not sure I could have been as restrained and well mannered. It seems that the first situation has largely been considered from the point of view of the second skipper's ("S2") perception of what the OP was doing. Surely this is a mistaken and we should be considering what S2 was doing: he was intending to anchor in difficult waters in which the good holding ground is a small/limited area and which required a considerable depth of rode. If this was in YM's 'A question of seamanship', who in their right mind would answer: you should approach at 7kn, overtake at close quarters a boat on the same course, shortly after overtaking the boat you throw the anchor over thus blocking the path of the overtaken boat so they have to alter coarse. That would be the comedy answer in a Christmas specialSurely anyone doing that would fail their RYA practical test ? The discussion about the OP's intention is whatifery - his path was blocked intentionally by an overtaking boat. If his intentions were not clear it adds to the gravity of the situation rather than excuses it. Being sneaky is not necessarily bad seamanship but just extremely bad manners. If he had steamed ahead suspecting what OP was doing and dropped his anchor a mile ahead, that would be sneaky but not bad seamanship. What S2 did here was both bad seamanship and extremely bad manners.So I applaud the OP's conduct.

 

[penberth3]

Given that I started the thread even I am getting a little bored by the debate...

Just to throw something else in. Any reason why the other boat couldn't have called you on the radio to ask your intentions? Or does your third paragraph explain why not?

 

[Allan]

I've not read all of this thread. The first time I anchored off Porlock we dragged the anchor, not long later I started using a different technique. While still moving forward I lower the anchor until it's just touching the surface. As the anchor drags it's nose across the seabed it's amazing how much you can feel, even with the chain over a roller. At places like Porlock, Minehead and Combe Martin you can find the sandy spots easily. It won't help the bad manners but should help with a long sleep!
The comment about the Crinan canal on page one reminded me of motoring up the Avon to the Bristol festival once. As I got to Seamills the Matthew was coming the other way and another yacht overtook me just as we were passing, making it unnecessarily tight. Rick, the Matthew skipper, quietly made his feelings about the other skipper known to me. I continued up river as the yacht disappeared ahead of me. When I got to the lock, the lock keepers were kind enough to hold the gates for me, I then took pleasure in heading up to the yacht and just putting one, mid, rope on his boat. No long lines to mess about with as the boats lift, no fenders on the muddy walls putting dirt on the hull and I was first out of the lock. Tortoise and hare plus a little satisfaction!
Allan

 

[Dutch01527]

I've not read all of this thread. The first time I anchored off Porlock we dragged the anchor, not long later I started using a different technique. While still moving forward I lower the anchor until it's just touching the surface. As the anchor drags it's nose across the seabed it's amazing how much you can feel, even with the chain over a roller. At places like Porlock, Minehead and Combe Martin you can find the sandy spots easily. It won't help the bad manners but should help with a long sleep.

Allan, that is genius. What a simple and elegant solution. I will practice it when I next have a chance. Thank you.

 

[Allan]

Allan, that is genius. What a simple and elegant solution. I will practice it when I next have a chance. Thank you.

Well, many thanks for that! I'd say it's good but I'm happy to accept genius.
The last time I looked the Google earth view of the Bristol channel was taken at highish water. previously it was taken at low water which was better. West of Foreland it was possible to find sandy patches showing up. I had these marked on the chartplotter of my boat.
Allan

 

[solent clown]

we have been carved up in small boats by bigger yachts and mobos on the solent so many times we dont even get wound up about it any more.
But then again, we now have a kayak, and a copy of Cockleshell Heroes, so we may sneak out with a limpet mine or two of a night :encouragement: Riverhogs beware.

 

[Genoa]

Well, many thanks for that! I'd say it's good but I'm happy to accept genius.
Allan

And there folks the good/bad balance is restored. Thanks Allan for showing that good mannered boaters are alive and well.

 

[moomba]

I still say no rules of the sea were broken , and getting angry or abusive in your mind is as waste of time and good energy , sorry to the OP but when we are frustrated and angry we can and are likley to exaggerate what is going on , you say he was going seven knots , how do you know this , you say he was 50 yards away , it is always hard to distinguish distance on the water , was he really that close for you take evasive action , if so why not get onto the VHF and tell him to back off , if he got to the anchor position first then as the boat behind you should have given him space to manoeuvre and get out of his way
as to saying that your not angry and getting bored of this post , if you re read your first post it does sound if your angry and pixxxd of, so expect a discussion on the matter
no we were not there to witness it but as everything in life we tend to expand on the the situation as anger gets the better of us, the other boater did nothing wrong but dent your ego and you came onto a public forum to vent your anger .

 

[Biggles Wader]

Very interesting thread as the OP and the various responses display such a variety in the human nature.I have noticed that it doesn't take long before any OP complaining, however gently or reasonably or with justification, about anything is told they are mistaken by about post 10 and wholly in the wrong by about #30.I think the OP to a large extent answered his own question by his own mannerly behaviour in the face of serious provocation in the first situation; despite the contraints in my own situation (wife who would deplore a scene, profession and being a short ar*e) I am not sure I could have been as restrained and well mannered. It seems that the first situation has largely been considered from the point of view of the second skipper's ("S2") perception of what the OP was doing. Surely this is a mistaken and we should be considering what S2 was doing: he was intending to anchor in difficult waters in which the good holding ground is a small/limited area and which required a considerable depth of rode. If this was in YM's 'A question of seamanship', who in their right mind would answer: you should approach at 7kn, overtake at close quarters a boat on the same course, shortly after overtaking the boat you throw the anchor over thus blocking the path of the overtaken boat so they have to alter coarse. That would be the comedy answer in a Christmas specialSurely anyone doing that would fail their RYA practical test ? The discussion about the OP's intention is whatifery - his path was blocked intentionally by an overtaking boat. If his intentions were not clear it adds to the gravity of the situation rather than excuses it. Being sneaky is not necessarily bad seamanship but just extremely bad manners. If he had steamed ahead suspecting what OP was doing and dropped his anchor a mile ahead, that would be sneaky but not bad seamanship. What S2 did here was both bad seamanship and extremely bad manners.So I applaud the OP's conduct.

Exactly so. You explain it so much better than I did.

 

[Daydream believer]

I've not read all of this thread. The first time I anchored off Porlock we dragged the anchor, not long later I started using a different technique. While still moving forward I lower the anchor until it's just touching the surface. As the anchor drags it's nose across the seabed it's amazing how much you can feel, even with the chain over a roller. At places like Porlock, Minehead and Combe Martin you can find the sandy spots easily.

Just do not let the mob at the seahorse trust read that

 

[Praxinoscope]

I can understand the OP ‘s ire at the other boat overtaking him and seemingly snaffling the mooring, but without actually witnessing the incident it’s rather difficult to tell if it was a case of bad manners or the other crew not realising fully waht was the intention of th OP.
However I do feel that boating standards of behaviour do seem to have declined, along with those in the UK in general reflected by the ignorance of people at supermarket checkouts ignoring the checkout operator while the are glued to their mobile phones, Students who think it’s OK to sit around texting when on a visit to an institution, whilst someone is taking time to explain the basics of what the function of a particular area is and gropus of people who decide to hold a ‘great get-together in the supermarket aisles blocking the whole aisle for anyone else, just for starters.
In the boating world, those who charge at rediculous speeds up to their moorings in crowded harbours and then look amazed when they crash into your boat, or the ‘prat’ in their tender who manages to gouge a line along the hull of your moored boat with their outboard but doesn’t even leave a note with the harbourmaster to apologise and the wasters who thinks they don’t have to weight their floating pick-up lines when everyone else in the harbour does are just a few of the milder examples.

 

[Heckler]

No , what does your response have to do with this thread ?

I put it on ignore ages ago when it first popped up. I suspect it is a sock puppet.

 

[Dutch01527]

I put it on ignore ages ago when it first popped up. I suspect it is a sock puppet.

Why would you suspect that?

 

[Cactus Sailing]

we have been carved up in small boats by bigger yachts and mobos on the solent so many times we dont even get wound up about it any more.
But then again, we now have a kayak, and a copy of Cockleshell Heroes, so we may sneak out with a limpet mine or two of a night :encouragement: Riverhogs beware.

The Solent is one thing, I was leaving Poole last Saturday... it was calmer through the Portland race!

 

[Blue Sunray]

we have been carved up in small boats by bigger yachts and mobos on the solent so many times we dont even get wound up about it any more.
But then again, we now have a kayak, and a copy of Cockleshell Heroes, so we may sneak out with a limpet mine or two of a night :encouragement: Riverhogs beware.

Slight technical issue, GRP. You may have to get your limpets' attachment mechs replaced.