Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
The boat following had no idea what the harbour master had told the Op to do & had no idea what he was faffing about at said:
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Are sailors standards of behaviour declining
- Thread starter Dutch01527
- Start date
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
My estimate is an 80% chance that the other skipper was being rude and a 20% chance that he misread the situation.
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
Probably about right.
Actually to me the pushing ahead was less significant than the other minor incident when two other boats near me left their full navigation steaming lights on overnight at anchor. We did not notice until we dragged a bit at 2.00am and I jumped out of bed after an alarm went off.
They nearly caused me a heart attack when I saw a red/green/white a couple of hundred yards away. I thought that we were in danger of being run down. I seriously thought of starting the engine and cutting the anchor rode but realised that they were too close so grabbed a powerful torch to signal our presence and saw that the boats were actually anchored.
Could be a mistake that both boats coincidentally switching on the wrong lights but given that their crews were together in the pub more likely to be lack of knowledge.
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Resolution
Well-Known Member
I suspect many of us have been woken from a deep sleep by some emergency like this. No time to shake the brains back into place, instant reactions required.
So I now have a couple of standard operating procedures - a powerful torch close to hand at the companionway, and keys to the engine always in place AND guest crew taught how to start the engine. As well as instructed to shout like h*ll if they see/hear anything and I am fast asleep up in the forward cabin.
What else should we do?
awol
Well-Known Member
What anchor and scope were you using when you dragged?
Leighb
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I was misremembering, the other club with a lion is the Royal Northumberland, I saw one once in Woodbridge, and initially saw the RNYC on the transom as RHYC.
AFAIK they are the only 2 Royal Clubs with no crown as part of the defacement.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
But I think you yourself are showing signs of the same behaviour.
Having experienced behaviour that can either have been deliberate rudeness or misreading the situation you choose to be 100% sure it is the former.
Personally I think the sailors today are less considerate / courteous than they were 20 years ago but I suspect that is largely down to inexperience/ignorance/lack of consideration than deliberate rudeness
awol
Well-Known Member
Well, there's Royal Gourock, Royal Northern and Clyde, Royal Western, Royal Highland and probably Royal Gibraltar just to name a few.
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
First time I had anchored overnight on my new boat. 28 foot medium displacement Dehler (c.3000 kg). Anchor was a Fortress FX16 fitted with mud palms. Rode was 30 metres 8mm chain and 30 metres leaded rope. Depth on anchoring 3.5m ( 1 metre above low water on a rising tide) rising to c.12m at high water overnight. Forecast from 3 different sites was 7-9 knots offshore wind which is what we experienced in the evening. Wind picked up to 20-25 knots pretty constantly at about midnight. Anchor dragged two times by about 50 - 70 metres ( drag not swing) and each time set itself again without help. I think that other boats also dragged, one appeared to be re setting at about 4 in the morning.
The holding in Porlock is not great, gravel with patches of mud/sand. I would not have planned a visit there if the wind had been onshore or the forecast had been accurate. When the planned spot (known to be mud/sand which suits the Fortress) was taken and we had to find another and I suspect that we were in gravel. The anchor came up clean.
I had a 16 kg Bruce anchor onboard and more nylon rode. In retrospect that may have been a better choice but we were well dug in and were fooled by the light conditions and forecasts. I should have also used a snubber, the boat was snatching a bit. I considered changing configuration in the middle of the night but decided that we were in no danger, the dragging was out to sea and not towards other boats so it was safer to leave things as they were.
I would welcome any advice as to what I should have done differently, I am not new to sailing but have limited anchoring experience on my own small boat.
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Genoa
Well-Known Member
So in situations like the one described, how do these inconsiderate people learn, and become experienced? Should we all carve them up, like on the motorway when people drive in the middle land at 55mph, to teach them? Should we go down the mandatory education route (including being able to cope with no electronic aids?) What? Also, what is your definition of "lack of consideration" if it is not rudeness - It appears in the synonyms dictionary as the same.
IMHO - Good seamanship from the following vessel would be, stand off until it is clear what the intention of the vessel ahead (and therefore with right of way) is. Not to charge past. It is possible the vessel is experiencing steering / engine trouble and might suddenly veer / accelerate. Also, if this vessel knew there was good holding in a particular place, they almost certainly knew the transit that was being followed. In my mind, that makes a big difference. They weren't in open sea, but in a known channel. If someone tore past me when I follow a transit into the Deben etc and made me take avoiding action, I would go up to them and explain why it is not seaman like. - In case they didn't know!
In this situation, if I was the OP, I would have gone alongside the other vessel, rafted to him (in a seaman like manner) with springs to keep masts apart etc, and proceeded to offer him a drink and socialise. When he questions what I am doing, I would then suggest "I thought this was your idea?" and see where the conversation goes. Especially if I had my other prop and hooker as crew!
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Mark-1
Well-Known Member
In which case let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume he's in the 20pc. Everyone's happier that way.
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
By remaining calm, reasonable and polite.
Don't do as I did in the Crinan by becoming visibly annoyed. Since then, when people have done daft things (we all have ....) I just smile at them and keep our own boat out of harm's way.
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
Somewhat unusually for me I did remain calm, reasonable and polite. I made no comment or gestures either on the water or in the pub later when the other guy came in. I considered talking to him but decided not to. I have a tendency to be a little too direct at times and as a 19 stone ex rugby forward with a face and build reflecting that history I can unintentionally be a little intimidating at times.
Babylon
Well-Known Member
Well done!
laika
Well-Known Member
An unnecessary manoeuvre involving boat contact in order to "teach someone a lesson" would not be something I would include in my definition of seamanship however it was done.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
These all wear the Undefaced blue as do many others, but I was commenting on the absence of a crown on a defaced ensign.
moomba
N/A
No idea why there is a problem , no rules of the seas were broken , the other boat probably just new the waters better and went faster , how were they supposed to know the ops intentions, one mans manners and politeness is an other mans woes no such thing as politeness and good manners on the sea , treat those the way you would like to be treated , if you like being an arse expect arseines back ,
I would have laughed it off and went somewhere else, I don't own the sea bed and if someone gets there before me through determination or accident who cares what am I going to do hit them lol,
MOVE ON AND CARRY ON
Good not to approach him in the pub as you would be perceived as the aggressor as they don't know what they have done , have a pint and laugh it off it wont be your first time or last it happens we can not all be from the same standards of etiquette from a bygone era
I would have laughed it off and went somewhere else, I don't own the sea bed and if someone gets there before me through determination or accident who cares what am I going to do hit them lol,
MOVE ON AND CARRY ON
Good not to approach him in the pub as you would be perceived as the aggressor as they don't know what they have done , have a pint and laugh it off it wont be your first time or last it happens we can not all be from the same standards of etiquette from a bygone era
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Kukri
Well-Known Member
So am I.
jdc
Well-Known Member
Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more
corrupt.
Horace, ~20BC.
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more
corrupt.
Horace, ~20BC.
