Are modern yachts designed wrong?

dancrane said:
That's a problem? Isn't originality the very essence of character? Marinas full of endless white similarity is what I (and others) dislike about otherwise-able AWBs.
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Yes, it is a problem, because many people would look at the interior and think that it looked home-made. Which, in fairness, some of it does.

And people spending that sort of money are usually canny enough to have in the back of their minds the possibility of resale in the future, They know that a quality production boat like a Hallberg-Rassy will be in demand and will retain a large proportion of its purchase price; equally, they know that one-offs can be hugely difficult to sell. As this one apparently demonstrated.
 
I didn't notice that it looked shabby; a bit eccentric in some of its dimensions, but pretty fair fit-out, I thought. Not over-glossy, which makes a nice change.

Know what you mean about Hallbergs though...the last one I sat in (only a little one) felt like a Merc S-class.
 
dancrane said:
Know what you mean about Hallbergs though...the last one I sat in (only a little one) felt like a Merc S-class.
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And they wear well. And retain their value. I've just sold my Hallberg-Rassy 352 after 19 years of ownership. OK, I'd added a radar/plotter and kept it in good nick, but I got back 85% of the price I paid for it 19 years ago, and I had people lining up to buy it. Sure, the real value of the money has gone down, but that's still a pretty good return. The one-off referred to probably sold for only 25% of its original price, and after only about 11 years. Unless you're very rich, production boats are the way to go.
 
pvb said:
And they wear well. And retain their value. I've just sold my Hallberg-Rassy 352 after 19 years of ownership. OK, I'd added a radar/plotter and kept it in good nick, but I got back 85% of the price I paid for it 19 years ago, and I had people lining up to buy it. Sure, the real value of the money has gone down, but that's still a pretty good return. The one-off referred to probably sold for only 25% of its original price, and after only about 11 years. Unless you're very rich, production boats are the way to go.
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Not sure your comments apply to production boats at the lower end of the market.

IMHO HR, Malo and others have purposely kept production rates at a level to have a 18month waiting list. They then boast of this as a selling point and an inflated value is achieved as so many seek second hand boats to shortcut the waiting list. This inflated value is then passed down the chain on future second hand sales. Bavarias/Ben/Jens etc are built to order but waiting time is only roughly build time - why buy second hand when its only a month or two to get a new one.

Rustlers sell second hand reasonably well but they are a more restricted market and one offs and home builds are an even more restricted market and lower price reflects that.
 
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Sailfree said:
IMHO HR, Malo and others have purposely kept production rates at a level to have a 18month waiting list. They then boast of this as a selling point and it is as so many seek second hand boats to shortcut the waiting list. Bavarias/Ben/Jens etc are built to order but waiting time is only roughly built time - why buy second hand when its only a month or two to get a new one.
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Well, I don't know whether HR & Malo deliberately restrict their production volume. Regardless, the boat I sold was out of current production, in fact it was 24 years old, so buying second-hand to shortcut the waiting list didn't apply. Even at the lower end of the market, the percentage retained value of a production boat is likely to be much better than that of a one-off.
 
Fuel injection.
ABS

Both pionered on the racing circuits... Also traction control, active suspension, vented disk brakes.. actually disk brakes per say as well. Then composite construction, wishbone suspension, independant suspension, superchargers, turbochargers..

In fact just about all the development workmhas been poinered on thenrace circuit.There was an old adage.

Win on Sunday
sell on Monday
 
pvb said:
Yes, it is a problem, because many people would look at the interior and think that it looked home-made. Which, in fairness, some of it does.

And people spending that sort of money are usually canny enough to have in the back of their minds the possibility of resale in the future, They know that a quality production boat like a Hallberg-Rassy will be in demand and will retain a large proportion of its purchase price; equally, they know that one-offs can be hugely difficult to sell. As this one apparently demonstrated.
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Could not agree more. That boat was pitched at Malo/HR buyers - or at least at those who had £250k to spend at the time on a new high quality cruising boat. However, most people in that position are risk averse - and might even say a bit like sheep. You can't go wrong with an HR - look at the people who buy them. Plus of course they are a known quantity and do live up to their reputation (mostly). It takes a maverick to step outside that comfortable world and buy something different. What happens then is that the builder offers more and more customisation to satisfy his one buyer to the point where it may become unattractive to anyone else.

Personally I liked the interior of that boat, but there are bits that don't work well and other bits that seem to exist only to show off the high level of craftmanship - even more apparent in the second one that was built (and took an age to sell).
 
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Tranona said:
Could not agree more. That boat was pitched at Malo/HR buyers - or at least at those who had £250k to spend at the time on a new high quality cruising boat....
).
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The sort of buyer who is not struggling to buy at that level but is comfortable, knowing what they want - and well heeled enough to take the losses as part of the deal. Not many about but it is good news for the new owner, provided they love it and intend to keep it.

BTW, is that liferaft stowage in the transom? Interesting in the light of recent discussion.
 
Tomahawk said:
Fuel injection.
ABS

Both pionered on the racing circuits... Also traction control, active suspension, vented disk brakes.. actually disk brakes per say as well. Then composite construction, wishbone suspension, independant suspension, superchargers, turbochargers..

In fact just about all the development workmhas been poinered on thenrace circuit.There was an old adage.

Win on Sunday
sell on Monday
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Disk brakes were invented for Concorde
 
My first boat griped terribly and needed 2 hands on the tiller in a breez. Close-quarters work was predictable but limited. She was quick off the wind but sailed mostly sideways on the wind. My second steered herself upwind for hour after hour without touching the helm and would leave almost anything for dead. I could turn her in her own length.

No 1 was a long-keeled gaff cutter, No 2 was a lightweight tri.

Different boats suit different purposes and no one formula is best for everything. Some do one thing well and the rest adequately; some do one thing well but the rest hardly at all, IOR racers from the 70s for example. Most have their niches and are less good in other areas. Only one thing is certain - those who claim there is only one right answer are fools.
 
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