Are Linear Galleys a joke offshore?

[Sergeant_Pepper]

I've never sailed a Bavaria or Dehler - or any of the other boats with long linear galleys down one side of the cabin or the other, but they strike me as being a very unseamanlilke arrangement.

Am I talking nonsense?

It seems they'd be fine for day sailing coastal stuff, but how do you deal with cooking a decent Full English breakfast for three or four people with a long galley on the port side when you might be bouncing along on a port tack in an F7 (or even an F6?). Daft? Not really - on a run I keep cooking until the wind is into F9, if beating then I call it quits at an F7. Certainly can't live without fresh hot coffee (no instant served on my little boat).

How do the sinks drain efficiently?

What happens when the cabin sole is wet from a spilled cuppa (or a broken egg)?

How can you rig an effective galley strap?

What's the expereience of people who have used these designs - and where did they come from? Must be a European builder's invention to save construction costs or to give more room for the inevitable double aft cabins.

Still, the concept only seems common on cheap(er) boats, but it's completely put me off stepping aboard a Dehler ...

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[Sybarite]

It depends. If the beam is large enough to allow a middle seatbench that you can wedge against - OK. Otherwise one can strap in.

John

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[johnsomerhausen]

I don't think the average cruiser (for whom these boats are designed) does any cooking on board above force 4. Half of the crew is seasick already. It's only iron-stomached masochists like you and I who still insists on brewing coffee (I do it in a "Moka Express" machine on the paraffin stove) or cooking a meal (I don't, I simply heat up a French "Plat préparé pour une personne" (prepared dish for one person) which comes in a big sardin tin-like container which you boil for ten minutes and then open. Perfect dish for a gale.... and there are at least 20 different recipes. You find them in any grocery or supermarket in France (I had 55 tins, 13 different recipes for my return from France to the US)
john

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[MainlySteam]

I believe you are right John. Have never sailed in a linear galley boat - we have a boat which has low accelerations but, even so, I could not imagine being able to work in a linear galley once there is anything of a sea and the need to be able to brace ones self in. In a lighter boat with higher accelerations I can only imagine that preparing anything in a linear galley is strictly limited to smooth sailing or in the anchorage/marina unless it is a vessel in the 60 foot plus class. Of course, if one only needs to prepare meals/drinks in an anchorage or marina then a linear galley probably has a lot going for it.

John

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[Jeremy_W]

I think linear galleys reflect the type of sailing people do rather than their aspirations. Most yachts are sailed short distances by day between marinas or anchorages. Nothing more complicated than boiling a kettle is done on passage.

The linear galley is a better arrangement for cooking in a marina. That's where most people do any cooking. The next logical step is to have no galley, just an urn that produces instant hot water and a corkboard to pin all the telephone numbers for restaurants, delivery pizza menus, Square Rigger membership card etc. Some new London flats have this arrangement.

Of course, if you look at yachts which are designed for serious offshore sailing from Rivals 34's to Great Britain II, from the British Steel Challenge to Clipper 60 they all have wraparound galleys!





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[Oldhand]

I agree with your view that linear galleys are not suitable for use at sea and my galley slave wouldn't allow me to have a boat with such an arrangement. I guess I have to say she knows best!

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[Mr Cassandra]

Hello . I cannot understand the sense in straping oneself in front of a pan of boiling hot water in any sort of galley.We have a linear galley on our boat and although we dont make large passages we do sail between 10/12 hrs a day and cook as we go with no trouble, like you said by using the back of middle seat.
cheers bob t

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[Swingkeel]

Last year, I sailed to Oporto in a Bavaria that had a linear galley. I suppose that’s considered a longish trip? Anyway, as I was once a Chef, I have an eye for the cooking arrangements in most types of transportation. A boat that can feed its crew well will always be sailed. So it’s a bit of a thing to me. Anyway, as I can cook most things in most seas, I can only say that, in my opinion, it was the best galley arrangement I have ever used. Space rather than the lack of it, is what I need below. Horseshoe and wrap arounds are fine, but invariably lack enough space for decent cooking, especially for more than four.

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[tcm]

Re: Are wraparound galleys a joke offshore?

i agree. Non-linear galleys can be designed well. I've cooked in F7 and more, although the process cannot de described as accurate as fiddles become a bit useless - any boiling things need to be handled or poured a5t a sink. I see no reason why drains should not more effecicient, not less. Any halfway decent meal would need more than one person - impossible with wrap-around galleys. Perhaps wraparound non-linear galleys refelcts the lousy style of prepacked "food" eaten aboard most sailing boats?

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[LadyInBed]

Granted, I have never done any long passages in rough conditions, the longest being about eighty two hours, but I can't really see the problem. I take it that in the majority of 'non-linear' galleys the stove is still along one side and is gimballed to swing port/starboard, so nothing different there. As for the sink, if it were very lumpy, I would use a bucket in the cockpit.
If life proves that difficult, I can always cook up a pressure cooker full of 'all in' stew then heave to to eat and wash up.


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[Sybarite]

I think my main objection to linear galleys is looking at the thing when you are supposedly relaxing in your main cabin. For conviviality on board I think you need to be in a face to face situation. I don't want to stare at the kitchen sink either directly or over somebody's shoulder.

John

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[MainlySteam]

A few things about galleys, in my opinion only:

If you only cook in the marina and sail calm seas, especially if you entertain, then an open galley (does not have to be outboard linear as the production boat approach) is the way to go. The layout can be as dry land kitchen ergonomics.

If you wish to cook in rough seas then:

The galley should be in the place of least motion in the boat.
You should be able to brace yourself against fore and aft and athwartships motions without belt (a belt will stop you escaping any heat related accident).
The sole of the vessel should be as low as possible and the countertops follow that down to reduce motions on the countertops (requires the sinks to be towards the centre of the vessel to stop backflooding if a pump is not used).
The sinks should be towards the centreline of the boat, where motions are much less, so that you can put open containers with liquids in them and they will not spill from the motions of the boat.
There should be a countertop longitudinally on the centreline of the boat where things can be put safely without being flung across the boat through rolling (we have a heavy boat with low accelerations, but have had small items eg peppergrinder, thrown across the boat from the outboard countertop, whereas they will just slide around on a centreline countertop).
If there is a longitudinal countertop in the centreline of the boat, it is useful if the layout of the boat can be arranged so that there is a longitudinal bulkhead such that someone can stand outside the galley between that bulkhead and the longitudinal counter and work on that counter to assist the cook without worrying about falling backwards.

Alternatively, buy a very big boat.

John

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[Mr Cassandra]

Agree with you there .We use light and bright curtains that we can pull from each end to cover /hide the galley /dirty dishes.until we wake or wash up
cheers bobt

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[qsiv]

I'm not sure thats entirely fair....

My Trintella 51is hardly a day sail from marina to marina boat, yet has a linear galleyrunning about 9 feet down the starboard side. Just inboard is the longitudinal bulkead of the engine room (all 9 foot of it!), and th passage is about 2,6 wide. Result? you stand with yor feet againt the angle of the passage sole and the bulkhead, and you are absolutely stable, apart from fore aft acceleration, but as you are at the pitch centre this isnt too bad. I have bought (but not fitted) a lngth of jib sheet track to fit along the galley, with the idea of clipping the harness ring to an eye on the track, and lefting the plunger when I wantt to move fore/aft, but I ve never felt insecure, so never fitted it.

Mind you two days ago when I sailed to Lymington (first sail of the season) I felt so queasy I couldnt go below for hours - most unusual.

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[zefender]

Not a joke but merely different. You get used to the things they are good at and the things they are not. Generally, the cooker is in the middle of the 'run' - least movement. The back of the middle saloon seat acts as a brace - but it's worth remembering to clip it shut! The comment about more than one person helping is also valid. The long worktop space does have its advantages in preparation but it also tempts you into setting up more plates for food than is maybe wise in any motion! There's no 'corner' to crash into either with a linear galley.

In big seas, in a typical modern hull design, I think the stomach strength of the cook is more important than the design anyway. You'll probably not be preparing quite the same food either. On such occasions, a quick transfer of a Tesco Finest ready meal from fridge to oven is the safest bet IMHO. But I guess on very long passages, preprepared ready meals are not an option after a week or so. I can't see why a big fry-up breakfast would be any more difficult (or unsafe) in a linear galley. For most conditions, both need a bit of juggling and for very rough conditions, I think a fry-up is off the agenda for many!

More generally, I think the design of galleys on boats is pretty appalling, whether linear or wrapround shapes. It's a bit boy-scoutish, not helped by features in the past in ST mag providing recipes for some very grim looking meals!

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[Mirelle]

Very useful points

I had not thought enough about accelerations. But we cannot take up the whole of the centre of the boat with the galley! The things that can go outboard are the stove (because things can be restrained from leaping off it, and pots have lids - indeed, pressure cookers are just about weatherproof until you open them) - and plate stowage and a freezer if you have one. I actually prefer a sink with a decent diapraghm pump on it to a gravity drain - no risk of back flooding, much less likely to choke, and washing up water has always positively gone!

The ability to stand straight and not bend is important so counters should have a kick space under them if possible.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: Very useful points

Andrew - agree we cannot take up the whole of the centre of the boat with a galley and sorry, did not mean to infer that at all - commonly on smaller vessels (under 50 foot say) from centreline to one side (and if you are like me you prefer it to be on the correct side!). And as the available beam decreases one has to modify thoughts to suit, but the principles stay the same.

John

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[johndf]

Re: Very useful points

The main drawback with the linear galley on my Jeanneau 34 is that there is no settee on the port side because that is where the galley is. This makes it difficult to sit down in the saloon comfortably when on starboard tack. The galley itself on the other hand is fine.

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[Gunfleet]

<Some new London flats have this arrangement.>
Do they go well to windward, though?

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