Are ex-Military Types better Skippers?
- Thread starter WestWittering
- Start date
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Eh!
That's stretching it a-wee-bit with the Flunkies, Scab-Lifters & Slop-Jockeys .. but you just can't beat a good 'Dabber' ... eh!
That's stretching it a-wee-bit with the Flunkies, Scab-Lifters & Slop-Jockeys .. but you just can't beat a good 'Dabber' ... eh!
chinita
Well-Known Member
Do subs still have Chinese on board to do the laundry? Just curious!
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Only the ‘Surface Fleet’ employed Chinese, Diesel Boats were almost always on water rationing (read ‘Why Should Britain Tremble’ by Chas Cooke) (on Kindle for <£5), & Nuclear Boats have the Fwd Stokers who use the large automatic machines during their watch & delicately place!? your working-rig back on your bunk during their Fwd-Rounds.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Oh the delights of selective quoting.
I think you'll find I said "NEARLY" everyone.
Also putting medics in the same category as stewards is a bit of an insult. They are now trained almost as paramedics...
Anyway I believe you are playing with semantics over the original point I was making.
PS Guess which make of washing machine we put on boats?
Answer 'Miele' - and if the fwd end stokers manage not to break them, then it was recommendation enough for me to buy one!
I think you'll find I said "NEARLY" everyone.
Also putting medics in the same category as stewards is a bit of an insult. They are now trained almost as paramedics...
Anyway I believe you are playing with semantics over the original point I was making.
PS Guess which make of washing machine we put on boats?
Answer 'Miele' - and if the fwd end stokers manage not to break them, then it was recommendation enough for me to buy one!
prv
Well-Known Member
I've had a certain amount of contact with the Army and the Air Force in my life, but the Navy is a bit of a mystery to me. Hence my curiosity. What is a stoker (assuming nobody's actually chucking coal into furnaces any more) and why would they be up the pointy end where the engines aren't?
Pete
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Because:
It's the Naval 'slang' (Stoker) for (and you guessed correctly) those who used-to shovel the coal & look after the 'mechanical bits' ie the engines.
Therefore as we have 'mechanical bits' all-over-the-shop we now have 'Fwd Stokers' (Fwd Staff) who take care of the 'front-bits' .... but they (on Boats) can also be referred to as 'Outside Staff' ..... and the Army is definitely far more confusing .... honest!
Ahh! ... and! ..... before I forget ..... the 'pointy-end' on a 'Boat' (Submarine) is at the back!
I've had a certain amount of contact with the Army and the Air Force in my life, but the Navy is a bit of a mystery to me. Hence my curiosity. What is a stoker (assuming nobody's actually chucking coal into furnaces any more) and why would they be up the pointy end where the engines aren't?
Pete
It's the Naval 'slang' (Stoker) for (and you guessed correctly) those who used-to shovel the coal & look after the 'mechanical bits' ie the engines.
Therefore as we have 'mechanical bits' all-over-the-shop we now have 'Fwd Stokers' (Fwd Staff) who take care of the 'front-bits' .... but they (on Boats) can also be referred to as 'Outside Staff' ..... and the Army is definitely far more confusing .... honest!
Ahh! ... and! ..... before I forget ..... the 'pointy-end' on a 'Boat' (Submarine) is at the back!
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prv
Well-Known Member
Ah - so the stokers are everyone from the engineering department (or whatever that may be called)? Do they operate the mechanical bits all over the shop, or just maintain them for others to operate?
Pete
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Recently (over the past 15-ish years) there has been a massive reorganisation of departments and the NCO structure, but basically (as was) the ME (Marine Engineers) maintain and operate mechanical systems, whilst the WE (Weapons Engineers) all things electrical, although there will be overlaps in areas of responsibility and operation.
This happens every 15-20 years as requirements dictate such as shortages of personnel and therefore we have the creation of additional groups and cross-training etc.
One of the best ‘Operational’ examples was the amalgamation of the Radio-Operators’ (Sparkers) and the Radar Operators (Radar Plot/Control –Room Staff) into what was known as the ROSM branch (Radio Operator Submarine.) Then for whatever reason 10-ish years later they were reverted back to RO’s (WT /Sparkers) and the Control-Room (Operations Room) staff became Tactical-Systems which has now become ‘Warfare’ staff & if I’m not mistaken is based on the American model /structure.
This happens every 15-20 years as requirements dictate such as shortages of personnel and therefore we have the creation of additional groups and cross-training etc.
One of the best ‘Operational’ examples was the amalgamation of the Radio-Operators’ (Sparkers) and the Radar Operators (Radar Plot/Control –Room Staff) into what was known as the ROSM branch (Radio Operator Submarine.) Then for whatever reason 10-ish years later they were reverted back to RO’s (WT /Sparkers) and the Control-Room (Operations Room) staff became Tactical-Systems which has now become ‘Warfare’ staff & if I’m not mistaken is based on the American model /structure.
chinita
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I don't know why I thought they were on subs. I remember first hearing about Chinese laundries on ships when I was on a NATO course in Oberammergau. Did not seem strange to me as we Pongos take our Chogi Wallahs everywhere.
I remember one time, in the seventies, when a civvy car containing a couple of our Chogis was hit by unattributed small arms fire.
The cry went out 'NAAFI have claimed responsibility'.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Couple of clarifications for those who are interested:
The laundrymen on ships etc all used to be Hong Kong Chinese but nowadays they are more usually Nepalese. The Nepalese get VERY upset if they are called Choki's or Chogis...! Twenty years ago the Chinese laundry men used to sleep in the laundry and cook their own meals, but they now have to live in a mess and eat with the ship's company (due to food hygene regulations etc).
The role of a stoker is to do the routine maintenance on all mechanical bits - propulsion etc. Stokers don't just deal with mechanical; they also deal with power generation and distrubution and hotel services - hot and cold water, chilled water for cooling equipment and air conditioning etc.
Electronics (Radar, radio, sonar, weapon systems) comes under the Weapons Engineering branch. The Marine Engineering (stokers) supply the power and the Weapons Engineers use it.
If its more than routine maintenance then the technical people start to get involved.
In simple terms - the technical senior rate (Artificer in old money or whatever he/she is called nowadays; they keep changing the names!) thinks about it and decides what to do, the stoker wields the spanner and screwdriver and gets their hands dirty.
Hope that makes sense of life in an RN ship or submarine.
The laundrymen on ships etc all used to be Hong Kong Chinese but nowadays they are more usually Nepalese. The Nepalese get VERY upset if they are called Choki's or Chogis...! Twenty years ago the Chinese laundry men used to sleep in the laundry and cook their own meals, but they now have to live in a mess and eat with the ship's company (due to food hygene regulations etc).
The role of a stoker is to do the routine maintenance on all mechanical bits - propulsion etc. Stokers don't just deal with mechanical; they also deal with power generation and distrubution and hotel services - hot and cold water, chilled water for cooling equipment and air conditioning etc.
Electronics (Radar, radio, sonar, weapon systems) comes under the Weapons Engineering branch. The Marine Engineering (stokers) supply the power and the Weapons Engineers use it.
If its more than routine maintenance then the technical people start to get involved.
In simple terms - the technical senior rate (Artificer in old money or whatever he/she is called nowadays; they keep changing the names!) thinks about it and decides what to do, the stoker wields the spanner and screwdriver and gets their hands dirty.
Hope that makes sense of life in an RN ship or submarine.
Downsman
Well-Known Member
Reading all these yarns brings back a memory of floating in Wellington Harbour (NZ) in a slick of white paint, brushes, rollers and slowly sinking paint cans. I'd been over the bow on a stage with an ex RN ...AB?
'Ready to lower?' Next thing I know I was floating. Nice bloke, good shipmate and absolute mustard on a 4inch gun apparently. Pratt couldn't tie his shoelaces..
'Ready to lower?' Next thing I know I was floating. Nice bloke, good shipmate and absolute mustard on a 4inch gun apparently. Pratt couldn't tie his shoelaces..
Poignard
Well-Known Member
The crew on my first RN ship included such obscure ratings as: 'Bugler and Poster' (who blew a bugle when required and sorted the mail); 'Painter' (a miserable old git who lurked in a den right forward (next to the cells) and reluctantly issued painting materials); 'Sailmaker' (who spent most of his time doing private jobs); 'Yeoman of Signals' (aka 'bunting tossers'). We also had a Chinese laundry, Chinese tailors, Chinese shoemaker and 3 NAAFI personnel. We had a Royal Marine band, augmented with an RAF band on the occasion when we took a senior civil servant to the Maldive Islands to sign a treaty with the Sultan, leasing the island of Gan to the UK.
We also had a supernumerary, ie the Captain's brother, who lived on board for most of the two and a half years of the commission.
It all seems such a long time ago ... Is it time for tea yet, nurse?
We also had a supernumerary, ie the Captain's brother, who lived on board for most of the two and a half years of the commission.
It all seems such a long time ago ... Is it time for tea yet, nurse?
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Sound like a bunch of ''NAAFI'' ratings to me
Yes the Navy were forever messing about with Branches & changing Titles.
Remember getting a chitty from Centurion telling me that of from such & such a date my new title was
APOPWEMN2(WE)(SW) .........................no explanation as to what it meant. Found out the 'A' meant 'Acting'
which rather upset me at the time as I had been a 'Confirmed' Petty Officer for over 8 years.
So I returned the chiity with a note on the bottom saying :
Kindly advise what this mumbo jumbo title means.
My lads have always referred to me as PO. Is this still allowed ?
Never did get a reply
Yes the Navy were forever messing about with Branches & changing Titles.
Remember getting a chitty from Centurion telling me that of from such & such a date my new title was
APOPWEMN2(WE)(SW) .........................no explanation as to what it meant. Found out the 'A' meant 'Acting'
which rather upset me at the time as I had been a 'Confirmed' Petty Officer for over 8 years.
So I returned the chiity with a note on the bottom saying :
Kindly advise what this mumbo jumbo title means.
My lads have always referred to me as PO. Is this still allowed ?
Never did get a reply
Seajet
...
Hi Sandyman,
in my last years with BAe, the name of the company and everyone's title changed so often, the headed notepaper couldn't keep up - , none of us had a clue who we were working for.
For a while we were ' Military Aircraft Division ' until someone twigged that spelt ' MAD ' ...
in my last years with BAe, the name of the company and everyone's title changed so often, the headed notepaper couldn't keep up - , none of us had a clue who we were working for.
For a while we were ' Military Aircraft Division ' until someone twigged that spelt ' MAD ' ...
chinita
Well-Known Member
The Army only has proper Indian Chogis.
I have never heard to them referred to as anything other than Chogis. Even on officially published Admin Orders!
I think I have mentioned this before but my last contact with a Chogi was in Cyprus when he offered me an egg banjo. As he scratched his head with the spatula, I declined.
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
RAF officers have to command while sitting down (usually at the front of a warplane). They lack the freedom of the Navy and Army where their officers (including the non-commissioned ones) can stroll about kicking their subordinates into position. RAF officers do it with charisma, example, and leadership.
No offence intended.
No offence intended.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
Won't read it so there. I will die with my opinions intact.
chinita
Well-Known Member
.....and using Christian Names.