ARC Altantic crossing with baby- feasible or stupid?

AntarcticPilot said:
And that is that when the first teeth come along, it gives a VERY high incentive for weaning a baby. First teeth are like razors, and I understand that breast-feeding a teething baby is extremely painful!
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My daughter has teeth, and my wife is still breast feeding our 1 year old before bed. Yes top and bottom teeth, and she's still breast feeding, who would have thunk it? Guess you might not understand everything ;)
 
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Interesting one this...

I also am an experienced doctor (in an acute hospital specialty) and experienced father of three (now) older daughters. However I have never crossed the Atlantic, much as I would love to. My thoughts are:-
1. no matter what other people with the best of intentions tell you, your experience of your first child will be unique - different to any you have had before and different to that of any friends children - because it is yours. You will not be able to tell how you will feel or manage with it until the time comes. It (hopefully) will be a wonderful experience and will probably fully occupy you in itself, to the exclusion of much else.
2. few babies in the Western world travel light. Someone has already pointed out how much kit and paraphernalia is associated with even a couple of nights away with a baby - do not underestimate this!
3. experience of other people's babies is usually never as "acceptable" or "enjoyable" as that of your own for any prolonged time. So this should be borne in mind when considering how your crew mates will really react (not how they say they will react). They will need to be exceptionally tolerant crew to manage this for 3 weeks in a 40' boat, covering watches, etc.. I expect the ARC is something they have looked forward to for some time and would not want their experience/memory of it spoiled. Are they too polite to say? How strong is your friendship?
4. Being doctors has some advantages in terms of knowledge and skills. However realistically, if your baby becomes unwell and you are days away from outside help, being a doctor will take second place - you are parents and will feel like parents (as you should). You might manage some basic medical assessment of your child and even some simple therapy. But then what? When babies get properly ill they usually do so remarkably quickly and it can be scary, even in the controlled environment of a hospital. There is often no way of predicting when a healthy baby will become unwell, and probably it won't - but you can't tell. Two worrying and exhausted parents are unlikely to be effective or useful crew. And certainly won't be enjoying their ARC.
5. The ARC, or any Atlantic crossing, should be a proper and fulfilling life experience. So why introduce an unnecessary risk to that? Yes, being at sea is about accepting, recognising and managing risk. Being at sea so far from hands-on help is about being truly self-sufficient. There are clear differences between not "mollycuddling" your kids (I am strongly opposed to that!) and exposing them to unnecessary risk which they have not "consented" to, or are even going to understand, as in this case.
6. Be honest with yourselves - this crossing is for you. Your new baby will gain nothing from it at that age, and may be disadvantaged in the unlikely, but possible, event that something may go wrong. Accept the gift that life is giving you and enjoy it fully - it will more than compensate for missing out on this ARC. There wll be more opportunities to sail there, when your child is old enough to enjoy it with you and you are more experienced parents. The privelege and pleasure of parenthood brings with it the need to sacrifice and sometimes compromise - at least for a little while. But what you get back from them is your reward.
7. Be honest with your shipmates - do they really accept what is on offer here? Additional responsibility, exhaustion from broken rest, an awful lot of additional supplies, reduced help from tired parents, etc.

I do not mean to sound negative here - in fact I have tried to be positive! I hope you reach a decision you will be happy with and I do recognise that we are all different and moulded from our own individual experiences :)
 
gasdave said:
Interesting one this...

I also am an experienced doctor (in an acute hospital specialty) and experienced father of three (now) older daughters. However I have never crossed the Atlantic, much as I would love to. My thoughts are:-
1. no matter what other people with the best of intentions tell you, your experience of your first child will be unique - different to any you have had before and different to that of any friends children - because it is yours. You will not be able to tell how you will feel or manage with it until the time comes. It (hopefully) will be a wonderful experience and will probably fully occupy you in itself, to the exclusion of much else.
2. few babies in the Western world travel light. Someone has already pointed out how much kit and paraphernalia is associated with even a couple of nights away with a baby - do not underestimate this!
3. experience of other people's babies is usually never as "acceptable" or "enjoyable" as that of your own for any prolonged time. So this should be borne in mind when considering how your crew mates will really react (not how they say they will react). They will need to be exceptionally tolerant crew to manage this for 3 weeks in a 40' boat, covering watches, etc.. I expect the ARC is something they have looked forward to for some time and would not want their experience/memory of it spoiled. Are they too polite to say? How strong is your friendship?
4. Being doctors has some advantages in terms of knowledge and skills. However realistically, if your baby becomes unwell and you are days away from outside help, being a doctor will take second place - you are parents and will feel like parents (as you should). You might manage some basic medical assessment of your child and even some simple therapy. But then what? When babies get properly ill they usually do so remarkably quickly and it can be scary, even in the controlled environment of a hospital. There is often no way of predicting when a healthy baby will become unwell, and probably it won't - but you can't tell. Two worrying and exhausted parents are unlikely to be effective or useful crew. And certainly won't be enjoying their ARC.
5. The ARC, or any Atlantic crossing, should be a proper and fulfilling life experience. So why introduce an unnecessary risk to that? Yes, being at sea is about accepting, recognising and managing risk. Being at sea so far from hands-on help is about being truly self-sufficient. There are clear differences between not "mollycuddling" your kids (I am strongly opposed to that!) and exposing them to unnecessary risk which they have not "consented" to, or are even going to understand, as in this case.
6. Be honest with yourselves - this crossing is for you. Your new baby will gain nothing from it at that age, and may be disadvantaged in the unlikely, but possible, event that something may go wrong. Accept the gift that life is giving you and enjoy it fully - it will more than compensate for missing out on this ARC. There wll be more opportunities to sail there, when your child is old enough to enjoy it with you and you are more experienced parents. The privelege and pleasure of parenthood brings with it the need to sacrifice and sometimes compromise - at least for a little while. But what you get back from them is your reward.
7. Be honest with your shipmates - do they really accept what is on offer here? Additional responsibility, exhaustion from broken rest, an awful lot of additional supplies, reduced help from tired parents, etc.

I do not mean to sound negative here - in fact I have tried to be positive! I hope you reach a decision you will be happy with and I do recognise that we are all different and moulded from our own individual experiences :)
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Well put.
Once you become a parent you have to change your lifestyle! Sorry to say, the time to do the ARC has passed until your child/children are older.
 
Michael Jackson hanging baby out the window. He knew he was not going to drop her but no one else did.

Steve Erwin - he took his child into an area of crocodiles and he knew they would not attack him but no one else did.

So honestly you might have a fantastic life experience but it will be stressful and more importantly unpredictable at times during it but of course will sound like an adventure to tell your baby about when it grows up.... Wait a sec cross when its old enough to remember it.

So my thought, i dont think (having crossed the pond 5 times) that it is fair on a baby to be taken across the Atlantic in a small boat. I would not do it unless i was literally moving house via boat immigrating to America or the Caribbean :-))))

Enjoy your life.
 
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I've done neither, but clearly having a baby a doing a trans-Atlantic are each likely to be hugely rewarding. However, the enjoyment you get from, and your input into, both of those things will inevitably be greatly reduced if you do them at the same time - there is no way that your enjoyment and contribution, doing the two at once, will be equal to the sum of the two done separately.

At the very best it can only be slightly better than only doing one, and there is a good chance that it will be much worse than doing either separately - spoiling both to some extent.

Of course it can be done, but why do it?

I'd suggest enjoying and giving your all to your first born now, and looking for an opportunity to do the ARC or similar at a later time when you can enjoy and contribute to that to the full, too.

Good luck whatever you choose.
 
gasdave said:
Interesting one this...

I also am an experienced doctor (in an acute hospital specialty) and experienced father of three (now) older daughters. However I have never crossed the Atlantic, much as I would love to. My thoughts are:-
1. no matter what other people with the best of intentions tell you, your experience of your first child will be unique - different to any you have had before and different to that of any friends children - because it is yours. You will not be able to tell how you will feel or manage with it until the time comes. It (hopefully) will be a wonderful experience and will probably fully occupy you in itself, to the exclusion of much else.
2. few babies in the Western world travel light. Someone has already pointed out how much kit and paraphernalia is associated with even a couple of nights away with a baby - do not underestimate this!
3. experience of other people's babies is usually never as "acceptable" or "enjoyable" as that of your own for any prolonged time. So this should be borne in mind when considering how your crew mates will really react (not how they say they will react). They will need to be exceptionally tolerant crew to manage this for 3 weeks in a 40' boat, covering watches, etc.. I expect the ARC is something they have looked forward to for some time and would not want their experience/memory of it spoiled. Are they too polite to say? How strong is your friendship?
4. Being doctors has some advantages in terms of knowledge and skills. However realistically, if your baby becomes unwell and you are days away from outside help, being a doctor will take second place - you are parents and will feel like parents (as you should). You might manage some basic medical assessment of your child and even some simple therapy. But then what? When babies get properly ill they usually do so remarkably quickly and it can be scary, even in the controlled environment of a hospital. There is often no way of predicting when a healthy baby will become unwell, and probably it won't - but you can't tell. Two worrying and exhausted parents are unlikely to be effective or useful crew. And certainly won't be enjoying their ARC.
5. The ARC, or any Atlantic crossing, should be a proper and fulfilling life experience. So why introduce an unnecessary risk to that? Yes, being at sea is about accepting, recognising and managing risk. Being at sea so far from hands-on help is about being truly self-sufficient. There are clear differences between not "mollycuddling" your kids (I am strongly opposed to that!) and exposing them to unnecessary risk which they have not "consented" to, or are even going to understand, as in this case.
6. Be honest with yourselves - this crossing is for you. Your new baby will gain nothing from it at that age, and may be disadvantaged in the unlikely, but possible, event that something may go wrong. Accept the gift that life is giving you and enjoy it fully - it will more than compensate for missing out on this ARC. There wll be more opportunities to sail there, when your child is old enough to enjoy it with you and you are more experienced parents. The privelege and pleasure of parenthood brings with it the need to sacrifice and sometimes compromise - at least for a little while. But what you get back from them is your reward.
7. Be honest with your shipmates - do they really accept what is on offer here? Additional responsibility, exhaustion from broken rest, an awful lot of additional supplies, reduced help from tired parents, etc.

I do not mean to sound negative here - in fact I have tried to be positive! I hope you reach a decision you will be happy with and I do recognise that we are all different and moulded from our own individual experiences :)
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Very well put Gasdave (I'm presuming anaesthetics?), my thoughts exactly. Leaving aside all of the increased risks to a new(ish) baby do they really want to jeopardise what sounds like a great friendship by potentially taking the shine off another couple's trip of a lifetime?
 
snooks said:
My daughter has teeth, and my wife is still breast feeding our 1 year old before bed. Yes top and bottom teeth, and she's still breast feeding, who would have thunk it? Guess you might not understand everything ;)
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Don't shoot the messenger - I said it wasn't first-hand experience, but it WAS the experience of several friends. Yes, many people do successfully continue to breast-feed after teething, but equally, many don't.
 
gasdave said:
Your new baby will gain nothing from it at that age, and may be disadvantaged in the unlikely, but possible, event that something may go wrong.
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I know I'm sounding like a stuck record but even if everything goes right I think the baby will be disadvantaged. 5-6 months was when my daughter started crawling. She simply couldn't have done that on the angled floor of a rocking 40 footer. A flat area to lollop about on, Mother/Baby groups, interaction with other babies, swimming lessons, walks, swimming pool, seeing animals. The number of new things to stimulate a baby physically and mentally is endless on land. Limiting a baby's experience to the inside of a boat and sea and sky and their usable rolling/crawling area to nearly zero cannot be good for a baby's development at a vital time. I think this trumps the rest of the case against taking a baby on a yacht for 4 weeks by a country mile.

The crew will probably be able to tolerate the baby, the mother will have to work 3x as hard to care for her baby but will probably cope, the baby probably won't get hurt or seriously ill, the boat probably won't sink. All of those risks are real but tolerable IMHO.

In contrast, the 4 weeks of quality stimulation and development the baby will be denied at a critical time are totally irreplaceable.
 
Thank you to everyone that has commented. It seems like the decision we must make is clear. I have no experience of being a mum and must take the advice of those of you who know more! As much as I still want to do it, and don't mind putting up with lack of sleep or other general unpleasantness, and think that probably everything would be fine, I don't think it is fair to put the rest of the crew through it. They are very good friends and have children of their own but no doubt it would make their trip less enjoyable. I wouldn't want to have to drop out at the last minute or not to able to be an active crew member. Plus my husband is still very much against it! So I think we will have to postpone our ARC dreams for another time. I think part of me wanted to prove that having a baby did not mean the end of fun adventures as seems to have happened to so many of our friends, but maybe I need to get my priorities right and as everyone tells me I guess I'll feel differently once the baby is born. So once again, thanks to everyone for your opinions, we have been going round in circles for weeks and the forum has enabled us to come to a decision.
 
As I was in the Not a good idea camp , you wont be surprised when I say Good Decision. This DOES NOT mean the end of adventures at all, just on hold until the time comes and you will know when that is.
All the very best for the 3 of you.:)
 
>I think part of me wanted to prove that having a baby did not mean the end of fun adventures as seems to have happened to so many of our friends

I new a married couple who took their baby everywhere, shopping, trips out, to parties and since they were skydivers to the airfield. The benefit was the baby got used to meeting lots of people and also got used to the all the different noises. After half a dozen trips out she could sleep anywhere in any noise. Good training for an Atlantic passage.

>Plus my husband is still very much against it!

So many babies do long passages, to no ill effect, he's not keeping an open mind - how about a divorce or violence ;-)
 
ejbcook said:
I think part of me wanted to prove that having a baby did not mean the end of fun adventures as seems to have happened to so many of our friends
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You can still have a sailing adventure. If you've got 4 weeks to devote some sailing why not the three of you do a 4 week coastal cruise somewhere you fancy that allows you to do slightly shorter hops with plenty of off boat crawl/roll/play time to keep the bairns development ticking along?
 
Just sitting on the fence here (am not going to say 'yes' or 'no').

Met a New Zealand couple on a Freedom 40 called Bounder in the first ARC back in 1986. Similar situation, baby turned up unexpectedly, but they decided to still do the ARC when the wee one was (I think) less than 6 months old. The baby's Grand Dad came along as well to lend a hand.

And I met these folk in Barbados a few years later http://www.cal25.com/page11/page42/WorldCruiser.html
Just the two of them (then), but when I met them again in Antigua 6 years on, they had had 2 kids on the way, and #3 was due to put in an appearance soon.
They happily crossed oceans with babies - on a 25 footer.....

Also know a Norwegian couple (both doctors) who set off around the world with two children, and #3 arrived in New Zealand. His dad did build him a cot up forward though, that he couldn't get out of. And this family went around the world without any fanfare or drama, taking about 6 years, and stopping off to work along the way in Barbados, New Zealand and South Africa when they ran out of funds.

The significant difference though with the three crews mentioned above and yourselves is that they were all in charge of their own boats, rather than crewing for friends.
I am not saying 'don't go' - its proven that sailing with babies does work - but the latter aspect (re how yourselves are crew rather than skipper) could be a compulsive reason for not going on this particular trip.
 
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ejbcook said:
Thank you to everyone that has commented. It seems like the decision we must make is clear. I have no experience of being a mum and must take the advice of those of you who know more! As much as I still want to do it, and don't mind putting up with lack of sleep or other general unpleasantness, and think that probably everything would be fine, I don't think it is fair to put the rest of the crew through it. They are very good friends and have children of their own but no doubt it would make their trip less enjoyable. I wouldn't want to have to drop out at the last minute or not to able to be an active crew member. Plus my husband is still very much against it! So I think we will have to postpone our ARC dreams for another time. I think part of me wanted to prove that having a baby did not mean the end of fun adventures as seems to have happened to so many of our friends, but maybe I need to get my priorities right and as everyone tells me I guess I'll feel differently once the baby is born. So once again, thanks to everyone for your opinions, we have been going round in circles for weeks and the forum has enabled us to come to a decision.
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As a sailing mum I know exactly how you feel a out not wanting a baby to stop your adventures. We've sailed with both ours since they were about 5 months. Having kids really doesn't have to stop the adventures, but I don't think I'd consider transatlantic on somebody else's boat. However we have still crossed the North Sea, raced with the eldest when he was 6 months, and had adventures closer to home that we never had in 10 years sailing the east coast before we had kids.
 
gasdave said:
Interesting one this...

I also am an experienced doctor (in an acute hospital specialty) and experienced father of three (now) older daughters. However I have never crossed the Atlantic, much as I would love to. My thoughts are:-
1. no matter what other people with the best of intentions tell you, your experience of your first child will be unique - different to any you have had before and different to that of any friends children - because it is yours. You will not be able to tell how you will feel or manage with it until the time comes. It (hopefully) will be a wonderful experience and will probably fully occupy you in itself, to the exclusion of much else.
2. few babies in the Western world travel light. Someone has already pointed out how much kit and paraphernalia is associated with even a couple of nights away with a baby - do not underestimate this!
3. experience of other people's babies is usually never as "acceptable" or "enjoyable" as that of your own for any prolonged time. So this should be borne in mind when considering how your crew mates will really react (not how they say they will react). They will need to be exceptionally tolerant crew to manage this for 3 weeks in a 40' boat, covering watches, etc.. I expect the ARC is something they have looked forward to for some time and would not want their experience/memory of it spoiled. Are they too polite to say? How strong is your friendship?
4. Being doctors has some advantages in terms of knowledge and skills. However realistically, if your baby becomes unwell and you are days away from outside help, being a doctor will take second place - you are parents and will feel like parents (as you should). You might manage some basic medical assessment of your child and even some simple therapy. But then what? When babies get properly ill they usually do so remarkably quickly and it can be scary, even in the controlled environment of a hospital. There is often no way of predicting when a healthy baby will become unwell, and probably it won't - but you can't tell. Two worrying and exhausted parents are unlikely to be effective or useful crew. And certainly won't be enjoying their ARC.
5. The ARC, or any Atlantic crossing, should be a proper and fulfilling life experience. So why introduce an unnecessary risk to that? Yes, being at sea is about accepting, recognising and managing risk. Being at sea so far from hands-on help is about being truly self-sufficient. There are clear differences between not "mollycuddling" your kids (I am strongly opposed to that!) and exposing them to unnecessary risk which they have not "consented" to, or are even going to understand, as in this case.
6. Be honest with yourselves - this crossing is for you. Your new baby will gain nothing from it at that age, and may be disadvantaged in the unlikely, but possible, event that something may go wrong. Accept the gift that life is giving you and enjoy it fully - it will more than compensate for missing out on this ARC. There wll be more opportunities to sail there, when your child is old enough to enjoy it with you and you are more experienced parents. The privelege and pleasure of parenthood brings with it the need to sacrifice and sometimes compromise - at least for a little while. But what you get back from them is your reward.
7. Be honest with your shipmates - do they really accept what is on offer here? Additional responsibility, exhaustion from broken rest, an awful lot of additional supplies, reduced help from tired parents, etc.

I do not mean to sound negative here - in fact I have tried to be positive! I hope you reach a decision you will be happy with and I do recognise that we are all different and moulded from our own individual experiences :)
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Excellent answer, said most of what I was about to.
To the OP, it sounds like you may have made up your mind to postpone. As a father, grand-father and now great-grandfather, I can assure you you are, hopefully, in for a wonderful time with your expanding family, but there's no need to rush things, kids are around for a long time and even when they're 40+ they are still your kids.
One other thing. It's fine to give your child some less than usual 'experiences' as long as they are your responsibility. On the trip in question, some of that responsibility would inevitably be passed to your friends. Any accident to your child would be bad enough, but the burden of guilt on others would be more than I'd wish on anybody.
 
Can you imagine having a baby onboard crying? some cry non stop some don't; its a matter of luck. Some are sick all the time others are not.

Cruising with a baby onboard with your own family only, is very different to racing and with other people onboard. So, it can be done, but it is not it will be very inconvenient for all concerned.
 
I say yes but... panta rei - things change.

If in the positon of the friends i wd be keen to have two doctors along as crew. `you could still, yep, plan to do that.

As per zefender, have a bit of sailing time with them, perhaps...

When it comes to it (in las palmas) there's loads of experienced crew avavilable at short notice so `i wouldn't back out till the last moment.

And of course, i wdn't back out at all - waking at weirdy times, having a baby about wd be fine, often.
 
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