Aquastar 38 purchase - Survey & Sea Trial tomorrow

[Farmer Piles]

God give me strength!!

Trev, how is it going with the Aquastar? The rest of us are really interested.

 

[superheat6k]

Not been on here for a couple of days - wow 5 pages of comments !

Anyway for me it is all academic.

I can't properly explain why, but I have decided that, although such a lovely boat the Aquastar is, she is not the boat for me.

So remaining boatless for the time being.

If anyone can explain why I can't explain my decision in words, a decision based upon a gut feeling, and hence having meant I have become the worst of all fender kickers, please help.

 

[Croftie]

I always say, "If in doubt both feet out" You will find the right one. ?

 

[petem]

Not been on here for a couple of days - wow 5 pages of comments !

Anyway for me it is all academic.

I can't properly explain why, but I have decided that, although such a lovely boat the Aquastar is, she is not the boat for me.

So remaining boatless for the time being.

If anyone can explain why I can't explain my decision in words, a decision based upon a gut feeling, and hence having meant I have become the worst of all fender kickers, please help.

Wrong engines for the boat.

I think you might have dodged a bullet there Trevor.

 

[Greg2]

Wrong engines for the boat.

I think you might have dodged a bullet there Trevor.

I would tend to agree. We gave a very tidy Broom 38 a swerve for the same reason - KAMD engines just don’t strike me as being right for a SD hull.

Something else will come along no doubt…
.

 

[kashurst]

The boat I believe Superheat was looking at with the KAMDs has, according to the advert, done 1400 hours on the KAMD engines for TWENTY YEARS! It has also apparently gone back and forth to the channel islands numerous times. Thats quite a trip in not easy waters. So the only possible conclusion, based solely on ancient apocryphal fairy tales is that the KAMD engines are quite clearly the wrong engines for this boat.

What a load of nonsense.

Unfortunately the KAMD engines are not understood, it is often clear reading posts on this boat forum and especially some of the American boat forums that there is a) a very poor understanding of science and b) people would rather believe what some bloke on the internet posted, rather than the manufacturers technical documentation. Sadly this seems to be the way people want to live these days. Probably not a good idea if you are in the middle of the sea with a problem.

I have been reading and posting on this forum for twenty two years. This forum used to be a place of excellent technical information. Sadly many of the people who posted helpful technically accurate replies and saved many of us lots of money, time and worry have either left because of moderation issues or sadly died. Unfortunately there seems to be an increasing trend to rush to spout old wives tales and reiterate long debunked false hoods instead of polite explanation of issues using science and maths. If this forum is to remain any use at all, please please stop turning this forum into facebook or the boat version of twatter.

 

[SC35]

The boat I believe Superheat was looking at with the KAMDs has, according to the advert, done 1400 hours on the KAMD engines. It has also apparently gone back and forth to the channel islands numerous times. Thats quite a trip in not easy waters. So the only possible conclusion, based solely on ancient apocryphal fairy tales is that the KAMD engines are quite clearly the wrong engines for this boat.

What a load of nonsense.

To say they are the "wrong" engines for the boat is a bit harsh.
But it would not be my preference, for reasons given earlier.

 

[Portofino]

Look at OEM motors .
View retro fit wildly different cautiously .

Aquastar know there onions .

Vp says the KAD series are for high speed planing boats = alarm bells metaphorically speaking and if real you probably wouldn’t hear them over the screaming ( and rapidly wearing out - moot point on here ) Super chargers .


I mean what did Aquastar fit as OEM …..not a SC tiny displacement package .

 

[petem]

The boat I believe Superheat was looking at with the KAMDs has, according to the advert, done 1400 hours on the KAMD engines for TWENTY YEARS! It has also apparently gone back and forth to the channel islands numerous times. Thats quite a trip in not easy waters. So the only possible conclusion, based solely on ancient apocryphal fairy tales is that the KAMD engines are quite clearly the wrong engines for this boat.

What a load of nonsense.

Unfortunately the KAMD engines are not understood, it is often clear reading posts on this boat forum and especially some of the American boat forums that there is a) a very poor understanding of science and b) people would rather believe what some bloke on the internet posted, rather than the manufacturers technical documentation. Sadly this seems to be the way people want to live these days. Probably not a good idea if you are in the middle of the sea with a problem.

I have been reading and posting on this forum for twenty two years. This forum used to be a place of excellent technical information. Sadly many of the people who posted helpful technically accurate replies and saved many of us lots of money, time and worry have either left because of moderation issues or sadly died. Unfortunately there seems to be an increasing trend to rush to spout old wives tales and reiterate long debunked false hoods instead of polite explanation of issues using science and maths. If this forum is to remain any use at all, please please stop turning this forum into facebook or the boat version of twatter.

As per my earlier posts, if the current owner of the boat was happy cruising at 2800 revs or above then that's fine.

If a future owner wishes to cruise between 1000 and 2800 revs then he will have to put up with supercharger noise unless they are particularly well sound proofed.

I suspect most owners of a boat like this will fall into the latter category so I question whether these are the right engines for the boat.

I don't think this is Facebook or Twitterish, just simple logic as someone who has a boat with these engines and knows the sounds that they make.

And it's certainly wise to sea trial the thing and consider how pleasant it is to cruise at the speeds that superheat wishes to cruise at.

 

[Portofino]

The boat I believe Superheat was looking at with the KAMDs has, according to the advert, done 1400 hours on the KAMD engines. It has also apparently gone back and forth to the channel islands numerous times. Thats quite a trip in not easy waters. So the only possible conclusion, based solely on ancient apocryphal fairy tales is that the KAMD engines are quite clearly the wrong engines for this boat.

What a load of nonsense.

Unfortunately the KAMD engines are not understood, it is often clear reading posts on this boat forum and especially some of the American boat forums that there is a) a very poor understanding of science and b) people would rather believe what some bloke on the internet posted, rather than the manufacturers technical documentation. Sadly this seems to be the way people want to live these days. Probably not a good idea if you are in the middle of the sea with a problem.

I have been reading and posting on this forum for twenty two years. This forum used to be a place of excellent technical information. Sadly many of the people who posted helpful technically accurate replies and saved many of us lots of money, time and worry have either left because of moderation issues or sadly died. Unfortunately there seems to be an increasing trend to rush to spout old wives tales and reiterate long debunked false hoods instead of polite explanation of issues using science and maths. If this forum is to remain any use at all, please please stop turning this forum into facebook or the boat version of twatter.

Calm down .
No ones criticising them .
Certainly not me I had a KAD 300 high speed planing boat for 9 yrs so know them well .
Used a VP authorised yard which just happened to have a engine shop .Used VP Fr HQ which was 2 miles from my SoF berth .They did engine out work as well as supply to dealers .It a big factory unit.
With the Yard engine shop and the VP HQ just by looking at the stuff in bits , the various hull laying about with “ holes “ in there sterns and talking to the engineers you soon get a feel for what breaks down , what needs fixing etc etc .

Tell you what spend 9 yrs in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 …say nowt just sit and watch .
Bet you pick up a lot to the point of confidentiality joining in 747 forums .

And know there limitations !
The fact you say it’s daft trying to land one on a aircraft carrier does not make you a 747 hater .

You are not seriously suggesting with this boat that Trev contemplates running round in the SC zone ?

There are plenty of others …..how about this re power a nice pair of 6.6 L straight 6 s FPT …..perfectly matched .
Aquastar Ocean Ranger 38 Used Boat for Sale 1979

 

[Portofino]

@ Kashust .
Why are KAD 300 a good match for the Aq 38 SD hull ?

Sock it to us ?
Compare with that FPT Iveco 6.6 or a pair of Cummins 300 Hp .

Come on let’s hear it get your Swiss Tony shiny suit on sell it to us

Educate us all .

After all “ any one wanna know anything about Itama “ …….Again and again - I do it sell the product happily.Guilty .
Don’t get Pete on about FL either ! .

 

[kashurst]

I suspect most owners of a boat like this will fall into the latter category so I question whether these are the right engines for the boat.

It's a good question. When Volvo or any other manufacturer design an engine they first have a list of all the things it must do, power, torque, operating temperature range etc etc. They also have another list of all the things the engine MUST NOT do - this list gets longer everyday. After about 100 years of making engines Volvo , MAN, Caterpillar and co have a huge list of things some of their customers who suffer from hard of thinking will do. The first one being they will never ever read any of the manuals. They also know without doubt that sooner or later if Volvo for instance catagorically stated in blood do not continuously use the superchargers loads of people will. Why ? Because at some point in the boats life they will have to do that to make progress to survive.

If for example an aquastar 38 was coming back from Jersey to Poole in the UK, and a storm kicks off half way, what will the crew do. They have 50 miles to go, either back to Jersey or carry on to Poole. The sea is too roughto plane and if they drop to idle they will loose steerage and bad things will happen. So inevitably the crew will run the engines using the superchargers at say 8 - 10 knots and make headway. They will be doing this for at least 5 hours continuously. If for example you were coming back from Ibiza to Altea and a storm kicked off, too rough to plane in your targa 34, what will you do? Sit and wait because someone on the internet said you can't use the engines on the superchargers? Or slow down run in displacement mode with the Superchargers making a racket for 3 or 4 hours.

So yes the engines will be noisy, yes they will produce a bit more belt dust. Will they continuously work? Yes they will. Which is why Volvo do not say it is a bad idea to run the engines on the superchargers. If they ever did the engine would be unsaleable to anyone as it would not be safe to use at all.

Now you can say my examples are exceptions - hopefully they are. But to Volvo they are not. Those engines MUST be able to operate in ALL conditions at ALL times to be even close to saleable.
Are KAMDs suitable to use in an SD boat - yes, they have excellent torque and power characteristics, especially in rough conditions. The superchargers make the engines extremely responsive. If the engine bay noise is well suppressed you wouldn't hear or be bothered by the extra noise.

 

[Portofino]

It's a good question. When Volvo or any other manufacturer design an engine they first have a list of all the things it must do, power, torque, operating temperature range etc etc. They also have another list of all the things the engine MUST NOT do - this list gets longer everyday. After about 100 years of making engines Volvo , MAN, Caterpillar and co have a huge list of things some of their customers who suffer from hard of thinking will do. The first one being they will never ever read any of the manuals. They also know without doubt that sooner or later if Volvo for instance catagorically stated in blood do not continuously use the superchargers loads of people will. Why ? Because at some point in the boats life they will have to do that to make progress to survive.

If for example an aquastar 38 was coming back from Jersey to Poole in the UK, and a storm kicks off half way, what will the crew do. They have 50 miles to go, either back to Jersey or carry on to Poole. The sea is too roughto plane and if they drop to idle they will loose steerage and bad things will happen. So inevitably the crew will run the engines using the superchargers at say 8 - 10 knots and make headway. They will be doing this for at least 5 hours continuously. If for example you were coming back from Ibiza to Altea and a storm kicked off, too rough to plane in your targa 34, what will you do? Sit and wait because someone on the internet said you can't use the engines on the superchargers? Or slow down run in displacement mode with the Superchargers making a racket for 3 or 4 hours.

So yes the engines will be noisy, yes they will produce a bit more belt dust. Will they continuously work? Yes they will. Which is why Volvo do not say it is a bad idea to run the engines on the superchargers. If they ever did the engine would be unsaleable to anyone as it would not be safe to use at all.

Now you can say my examples are exceptions - hopefully they are. But to Volvo they are not. Those engines MUST be able to operate in ALL conditions at ALL times to be even close to saleable.
Are KAMDs suitable to use in an SD boat - yes, they have excellent torque and power characteristics, especially in rough conditions. The superchargers make the engines extremely responsive. If the engine bay noise is well suppressed you wouldn't hear or be bothered by the extra noise.

But I already made this point in post #44 .

This is not a OEM install it’s a retro fit .

SC failure is not a show stopper .There’s no safety element.
You just prematurely wear the thing out .That’s why it’s clutch operated to extend its life .Turbo takes over above a certain rpm .

But the sales brochure says suitable for” high speed planing boats “ or words to that effect .
You ignore VP s own description of use

 

[kashurst]

SC failure is not a show stopper .There’s no safety element.
You just prematurely wear the thing out .That’s why it’s clutch operated to extend its life .Turbo takes over above a certain rpm .

Portofino - why don't you download the KAD engine manual and go and have a quiet read somewhere, before you embarrass yourself even further.

 

[Portofino]

Portofino - why don't you download the KAD engine manual and go and have a quiet read somewhere, before you embarrass yourself even further.

Over the years on this boat forum I have come to understand that everyone is different. Understanding mechanical things by just looking at them is not common. Sometimes explaining things to someone that is not as mechanical minded is difficult because I don't understand what they don't "see" in the explanation.
Doesn't make anyone better or worse just different. That's what I like about this forum , we can see different views and ways of doing things.

How ever some folks are unable to look at issues in the abstract form and take criticism of the topic personally .
The classic tell is when they start going for the man not the ball .
Which is what we have here .

 

[Greg2]

If for example an aquastar 38 was coming back from Jersey to Poole in the UK, and a storm kicks off half way, what will the crew do. They have 50 miles to go, either back to Jersey or carry on to Poole. The sea is too roughto plane and if they drop to idle they will loose steerage and bad things will happen. So inevitably the crew will run the engines using the superchargers at say 8 - 10 knots and make headway. They will be doing this for at least 5 hours continuously. If for example you were coming back from Ibiza to Altea and a storm kicked off, too rough to plane in your targa 34, what will you do? Sit and wait because someone on the internet said you can't use the engines on the superchargers? Or slow down run in displacement mode with the Superchargers making a racket for 3 or 4 hours.

So yes the engines will be noisy, yes they will produce a bit more belt dust. Will they continuously work? Yes they will. Which is why Volvo do not say it is a bad idea to run the engines on the superchargers. If they ever did the engine would be unsaleable to anyone as it would not be safe to use at all.

We experienced this on a previous boat fitted with KAD42s. We we’re cruising in company and one of the other boats had a problem in lively sea conditions so we all slowed to 10 knots and for some time we were in what we described afterwards as ‘supercharger hell.’ I didn’t have any concern about them running constantly but the noise was just awful and I am not sure that it would be possible to sufficiently soundproof an engine bay to make it tolerable.

A key benefit of an SD hull is to run at any speed and with the KAMD engines there would be a band of speed that might be effectively unusable, which is why I would say that the engines are probably not a good fit with the boat as opposed to because of any potential mechanical issues.
.

 

[petem]

We experienced this on a previous boat fitted with KAD42s. We we’re cruising in company and one of the other boats had a problem in lively sea conditions so we all slowed to 10 knots and for some time we were in what we described afterwards as ‘supercharger hell.’ I didn’t have any concern about them running constantly but the noise was just awful and I am not sure that it would be possible to sufficiently soundproof an engine bay to make it tolerable.

A key benefit of an SD hull is to run at any speed and with the KAMD engines there would be a band of speed that might be effectively unusable, which is why I would say that the engines are probably not a good fit with the boat as opposed to because of any potential mechanical issues.
.

Soundproofing will be particularly challenging on a boat like this that only seems to have an internal helm (unlike a flybridge).

Maybe the hours are considerable as the owner went everywhere at 4 knots!

 

[stelican]

We experienced this on a previous boat fitted with KAD42s. We we’re cruising in company and one of the other boats had a problem in lively sea conditions so we all slowed to 10 knots and for some time we were in what we described afterwards as ‘supercharger hell.’ I didn’t have any concern about them running constantly but the noise was just awful and I am not sure that it would be possible to sufficiently soundproof an engine bay to make it tolerable.

A key benefit of an SD hull is to run at any speed and with the KAMD engines there would be a band of speed that might be effectively unusable, which is why I would say that the engines are probably not a good fit with the boat as opposed to because of any potential mechanical issues.
.

You hit the nail on the head there.

 

[kashurst]

The supercharger silencers on the 42 are different to the 43 and are completely different on the 44/300. They are still pretty loud but the shriek mostly went away.

 

[petem]

Deleted