Aquastar 38 purchase - Survey & Sea Trial tomorrow

[petem]

Kompressors on the KAD's / TAMD's are electroincally controlled and on my Kad's cut in at about 1800rpm and out at about 2200rpm , where the turbos take over the job of boosting, there is a very small adjustment to these revs.
Unless the wiring is changed cannot be run continusley

On the KAD300 the compressor runs from 1000rpm to 2800rpm which is a pretty broad RPM range.

 

[petem]

That’s just a description.
Where is the operators instructions ? How to use it ?

Like a car manual …..Left peddle is clutch .Middle brake , right accelerator.
“ No where does it say you cannot / should not “[ press all three at once ) and hold down “continuously “

You wouldn’t suggest that to a potential purchaser .

Same again just a description of the three peddles what they do .It ain’t how to operate the car .


Your link fails to say you CAN run them continuously in the SC range .

Neither the operator's manual nor the workshop manual say that the S/C cannot be run continuously.

 

[petem]

That compressor manufacturer says it’s not designed for continuous running .

Have you got a citation for that please?

There are compressors and compressors do not confuse them all together .
Agura ( VP s ) have low inertia sos they do not fry the clutch instantly when it’s applied ,and can shock itself up to the required rpm . Think coming off the revs, the kick at re- engagement at 2600 rpm as well !
Don,t confuse these Japanese lightweight Aguras that VP use with say a Whipple use in the auto world which is heavily built constantly running , no clutch engagement and built to last . Or what ever Merc use in Komoressor of Bentley in “ Blowers”

Suspect you are peddling this mantra ?

There’s zero comp oil cooling with the VP for example .

And why would a low inertia supercharge not be suitable for sustained running? What do you think will wear out?

I don't understand your cooling comment. Why do you think the oil that lubricates the compressor needs a dedicated oil cooler?

Anyhow PeteM Q the SC range thingy on this re powered boat remains unanswered.
Who said the engines were ( KAD s ) brand new?

Remember ,…….happy to repeat until the cows come home - “ try before you buy “

@ Trevor is it a river boat now ? Used on a river ?

Just trying to figure out why some one would fit motors designed for high speed planning boats into that slug of a hull ?
Seems unfit for purpose as they had a wide choice.
Vetus ,Nanni .Iveco , Mitsubishi, FPT , Yamaha , Cummins , Perkins , + many more etc etc.

Nobody said the engines were brand new.

 

[Portofino]

Have you got a citation for that please?



And why would a low inertia supercharge not be suitable for sustained running? What do you think will wear out?

I don't understand your cooling comment. Why do you think the oil that lubricates the compressor needs a dedicated oil cooler?


Nobody said the engines were brand new.

Read it somewhere Ogura btw not Agura . VP btw took over Ogura , bought it out .
Bearings and oil seals as tiny relatively.
Oil will get hot and degrade faster on continuous running .VP state every 1000 hrs for change so expect its not continuous running otherwise it will not bear up . Soon knacker the bearings in continuous use unless you shorten the 1000 hr substantially.
Put it this way the bearings will be toast way before the “ book “ 1000 hr change .
This is because a 30/40 sec burst of SC getting on the plane on a typical trip of say your T34 or my Ex Porto 35 isn’t gonna stress the thing out .It will go to a 1000 s of hrs with its 1000 hr lub .


Auto compressors in continuous use the engine oil like your turbo and its cooled as per any performance engine to extend its longevity.


Look here Pete different strokes for different folks in the sense as I said to KAshurst
“ there are compressors and compressors “ Not all designed for continuous use .
The clutch ones aren’t By there very nature of low inertia to support clutch longevity and min parasitic drag everything is light weight .Just enough beef to get the job done .

Yes in some circumstances say heavy sea 10 miles out you can run at 14 knots SC screaming .Not saying you can’t nor VP - your point .
But 40 hrs or 400 hrs …..it won’t make a straight 40 hrs run never mind 400 continuous.

They are for high speed planing boats leisure boats like yours and my Ex Sun squeaker .

In fact the “ Murican “ commercial fishers fit a disengagement switch so they can run at 14 knots without the SC .
Why do the professionals racking up 1000 hrs a year do this ….fit a cut off switch ?

Cos it not designed to run continuous for prolonged periods .

Here more SC stuff .
Superchargers

 

[kashurst]

Read it somewhere Ogura btw not Agura . VP btw took over Ogura , bought it out .
Bearings and oil seals as tiny relatively.
Oil will get hot and degrade faster on continuous running .VP state every 1000 hrs for change so expect its not continuous running otherwise it will not bear up . Soon knacker the bearings in continuous use unless you shorten the 1000 hr substantially.
Put it this way the bearings will be toast way before the “ book “ 1000 hr change .
This is because a 30/40 sec burst of SC getting on the plane on a typical trip of say your T34 or my Ex Porto 35 isn’t gonna stress the thing out .It will go to a 1000 s of hrs with its 1000 hr lub .


Auto compressors in continuous use the engine oil like your turbo and its cooled as per any performance engine to extend its longevity.


Look here Pete different strokes for different folks in the sense as I said to KAshurst
“ there are compressors and compressors “ Not all designed for continuous use .
The clutch ones aren’t By there very nature of low inertia to support clutch longevity and min parasitic drag everything is light weight .Just enough beef to get the job done .

Yes in some circumstances say heavy sea 10 miles out you can run at 14 knots SC screaming .Not saying you can’t nor VP - your point .
But 40 hrs or 400 hrs …..it won’t make a straight 40 hrs run never mind 400 continuous.

They are for high speed planing boats leisure boats like yours and my Ex Sun squeaker .

In fact the “ Murican “ commercial fishers fit a disengagement switch so they can run at 14 knots without the SC .
Why do the professionals racking up 1000 hrs a year do this ….fit a cut off switch ?

Cos it not designed to run continuous for prolonged periods .

Here more SC stuff .
Superchargers

So you don't actually know do you. You are just regurgitating, yet again, internet guff.
This is a hard question: answer this one "Should I accept the written documents and manuals of one of the worlds largest marine engine manufacturers, who have sold millions and millions of engines all over the world, or some tale of woe on an internet message forum?" I shall have to think hard about that one.



for about a nano second.

Superheat6K: lovely boat, clearly used and loved, great engines, fingers crossed for a successful sale and many years of pleasure.

 

[Portofino]

So you don't actually know do you. You are just regurgitating, yet again, internet guff.
This is a hard question: answer this one "Should I accept the written documents and manuals of one of the worlds largest marine engine manufacturers, who have sold millions and millions of engines all over the world, or some tale of woe on an internet message forum?" I shall have to think hard about that one.



for about a nano second.

Superheat6K: lovely boat, clearly used and loved, great engines, fingers crossed for a successful sale and many years of pleasure.

You have not provided a written document that states its ok to run the Ogura SC continuously .
Ie a operators manual .

For the reasons I have said if you do you are courting expense with premature SC repairs .Madness .


You might as well ask Boris to write his own report on Party gate .Cant you see VP is the parent Co of Ogura now .
So they ain’t gonna invite a Sue Gray ….independent person to write this up .An independent engineer if you like .

How ever you have not provided evidence that Continuous SC running with the KAD series Ogura SC is recommended and encouraged .

I have gone through reasons why it should not be the modus operandi of a KAD boat .Also eluded to professionals turning / switching them off as there livelihoods depend on reliability and longevity.Not unnecessary avoidable expense.

Clue here pre VP molestation of the blurb .


Oguras are lightweight SC s

Eaton used in Aston Martin and RRover SC are heavy duty continuous running jobbies …..but far heavier built and rob a bit of Hp .

As said horses for courses .

Its totally wrong of you to suggest , infer to any KAD SC powered boater it’s ok to run at continuous SC running speed .

 

[vas]

doh, had to go through all that... I was hoping for news from Trevor!

 

[kashurst]

Cant you see VP is the parent Co of Ogura now .

Volvo Penta do not own Ogura Clutch of Japan. Unless of course you have documentary evidence...................
As to evidence of what Volvo state in their manuals - download it. It's really not hard to find.

 

[kashurst]

doh, had to go through all that... I was hoping for news from Trevor!

apologies.

 

[Portofino]

Oh this ……

Tevor comes across as a hands on old school engineering kinda guy .
Difficult to pull wool over his eyes in terms of basic mech stuff I would have thought .My kinda guy .

Kashurts you are not seriously suggesting to Tev he maxes out on metal “ chip “ ingestion ? By running around with the SC continuously engaged in a boat retro fitted with KADs .Ie was not OEM motors ?

Sorry Vas but I can’t just airbrush over Ogura weak spots and iam equally curious as PeteM as to the application of theses motors in that kinda semi D boat .

Fine if Tev wants to run below 1400 SC rpm cut in , or over 2800 rpm SC cut out .

 

[petem]

Here's a link to the Ogura TX brochure...

https://ogura-clutch.com/downloads/marketbrochures/Ogura-BlowerSupercharger_2018.pdf

Low and behold, they are rated for 9-12,000 RPM continuous running.

 

[Portofino]

Here's a link to the Ogura TX brochure...

https://ogura-clutch.com/downloads/marketbrochures/Ogura-BlowerSupercharger_2018.pdf

Low and behold, they are rated for 9-12,000 RPM continuous running.

KADs Pete those are D6 .Since when did D6 enter into this Trev prospect is a KAD boat .

 

[petem]

It's an Ogura TX brochure.

You quoted an Ogura article in post #50.

KAD's have Ogura TX superchargers.

 

[Portofino]

So you don't actually know do you. You are just regurgitating, yet again, internet guff.
This is a hard question: answer this one "Should I accept the written documents and manuals of one of the worlds largest marine engine manufacturers, who have sold millions and millions of engines all over the world, or some tale of woe on an internet message forum?" I shall have to think hard about that one.



for about a nano second.

Superheat6K: lovely boat, clearly used and loved, great engines, fingers crossed for a successful sale and many years of pleasure.

Actually the manual does pertain to operation rpm iirc .
Say s something like cruise at 200 rpm or 400* rpm of WOT .

Thats over 2800 the top of the SC range .Or it should be if it’s been signed off correctly give and take a bit of fouling .


* sorry can’t remember exactly which but nether the less my point stands .= high speed planing boat engines for the likes of T34 s etc etc

 

[Greg2]

The only EDC boat that I can see that's on the market and marked as sold has KAD300's (KAMD300's actually).

AFAIK, these are normally fitted to smaller planing boats.

Are they a good match for the boat? I'd be concerned if the normal cruising speed of the boat requires the superchargers to be constantly running (noise and potential supercharger wear).

If normal running will be above supercharger range then that would be better.

I mentioned this in the other thread. I have always thought that they may not be the best match on the basis that running at any speed is one of the key benefits of an SD hull. It would be interesting to know what speeds are obtained at what RPM.

 

[Portofino]

It's an Ogura TX brochure.

You quoted an Ogura article in post #50.

KAD's have Ogura TX superchargers.

Not those .
Ogura make a range of SC s clutches and various power transfer bits so what?

Car tyres Pete they have speed ratings .
They look the same to all intents and purposes.H rated = 130 mph , Y 186 mph .

Ps don’t find a H rated tyre for a Porsche …..you can if you try but believe me they are not designed for it……to do the max speed of a 911 .Fit a Y .



We are talking KAD SC s aren’t we ?

Are you inferring to Trev it’s sensible to cruise this boat continuously in its SC range .

The KADs Sc are earlier different to the current D6 …..they are not the same part btw .Ck out the parts catalogs .

 

[petem]

Not those .
Ogura make a range of SC s clutches and various power transfer bits so what?

Car tyres Pete they have speed ratings .
They look the same to all intents and purposes.H rated = 130 mph , Y 186 mph .

Ps don’t find a H rated tyre for a Porsche …..you can if you try but believe me they are not designed for it……to do the max speed of a 911 .Fit a Y .

We are talking KAD SC s aren’t we ?

Are you inferring to Trev it’s sensible to cruise this boat continuously in its SC range .

The KADs Sc are earlier different to the current D6 …..they are not the same part btw .Ck out the parts catalogs .

The KAD series engine use an Ogura 15F Supercharger (it's in black and white in the technical spec for the engine). It's one of the Supercharger models that is listed in the Ogura brochure that I linked to above.

You should do the decent thing for once and admit that you're wrong.

 

[Portofino]

I mentioned this in the other thread. I have always thought that they may not be the best match on the basis that running at any speed is one of the key benefits of an SD hull. It would be interesting to know what speeds are obtained at what RPM.

+1
And if Trevs happy with those figures ….ie what’s the SC range rpm speeds .If they are typically his normal cruise , what he thinks running about all day with the ( aged btw ) SC screaming away .

How can you not think ££££ big bill anytime soon running through your mind ?

 

[Portofino]

The KAD series engine use an Ogura 15F Supercharger (it's in black and white in the technical spec for the engine). It's one of the Supercharger models that is listed in the Ogura brochure that I linked to above.

You should do the decent thing for once and admit that you're wrong.

I ,am not wrong thats why .
My advice to KAD owners is just use the SC as it was intended to get up turbo running rpm what ever that is and cruise as VP state in there book a few 100 rpm ( is it 400? ) off your WOT .

Follow your VP KAD manual …..simples why won’t you ?

Those “ continuous “ numbers you linked are the running rpm once it up and running its optimal to achieve it’s rated boost .

It does not mean you can run them or should run them for any longer than it takes for the turbos to take over .
It means in that 30 / 40 sec low down boost period they run at that rpm ( varies in size ) .

Many car guys mostly Japanese moders Eg MX5 and Toyota kids fit Oguras and end up rebuilding them for the very reasons I have stated above in earlier posts .
As expected the rebuild kit comprising of bearings + seals .They blow up there motors for other reasons before the metal “ chip “ issue surfaces .

As said there are other better permanent designed running SC s out there .

 

[Croftie]

Will you guys please open a thread about Volvo KAD engines and superchargers. This is a thread about Trevors new boat and to be honest this thread drift is spoiling it.