April 2019 YM: Red to white diesel dilution

JumbleDuck said:
I note in passing that according to Wikipedia, Euromarker is Solvent Yellow Azo 124 dye and the UK adds an additional chemical because Euromarker is too easy to remove.

Since the US uses Solvent Red 64, those superyachts should have been fine.
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Acetone apparently does the trick. Although there must be more to the fuel laundering process as, according to the news reports, it produces toxic waste. The launderers apparently ring up the PSNI in Newry anonymously to ask them to remove it from whatever site they were using up to a few days previously. Whatever they do must be effective as I've never heard of it being detected in a garage's tanks.

I'm not sure what the definition of toxic is as I assume duty-paid white diesel is unfit for human consumption.
 
According to hmrc they changed the red dye last year, and they claim the new dye is impossible to remove. (so far) I believe southern Ireland still use the same green dye as they have been using and it is still possible to remove it. The hmrc claim must be true because there has been a big reduction in fuel laundering plants, but I am sure people are hard at work experimenting with the stuff! Does anyone know what this new dye is?
 
lw395 said:
As red as you like, provided it doesn't have Euromarker in it.
I doubt the UK will stop marking its diesel with euromarker any time soon though.
And existing stocks will be euromarked.
The regulations on CE marking are mostly about selling things.
There are issues with some things like VHF transmitters where a lack type approval could make it illegal to use. If it doesn't have the 'international channel set, just the US.
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NO the offence under the regulations which i have posted on a previous thread clearly stated 'marked fuel' not euromarker, most of the EU use red, Ireland uses green and i believe green can also be obtained in Greece. Anecdotal evidence certainly from roadside inspections, the most common, is that it is a visual test, though if it looked slightly pinkish there must be a more detailed examination im sure, filters quite probably as they would stain.

The American superyacht was stopped and fined in Germany, some 8000 euros IIRC they also had a fully completed 'fuel log'.
The owner/operator objected to being fined citing the Istanbul convention, the last i heard was that they were taking legal action to recover the 8000 euro fine. It would be interesting to know if there was an outcome to that case.
 
chrishscorp said:
NO the offence under the regulations which i have posted on a previous thread clearly stated 'marked fuel' not euromarker, most of the EU use red, Ireland uses green and i believe green can also be obtained in Greece. Anecdotal evidence certainly from roadside inspections, the most common, is that it is a visual test, though if it looked slightly pinkish there must be a more detailed examination im sure, filters quite probably as they would stain.

The American superyacht was stopped and fined in Germany, some 8000 euros IIRC they also had a fully completed 'fuel log'.
The owner/operator objected to being fined citing the Istanbul convention, the last i heard was that they were taking legal action to recover the 8000 euro fine. It would be interesting to know if there was an outcome to that case.
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AIUI, the law is intended to mean 'marked fuel', as in fuel containing the official euromarker.
This may be subject to interpretation as 'fuel marked by any old coloured dye'.
Euro marker on its own is yellow? Other stuff is added too, to make the fuel red or green.
 
lw395 said:
Euro marker on its own is yellow? Other stuff is added too, to make the fuel red or green.
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Apparently it goes red with pH<7. Google suggests that diesel fuel is typically 5.5<pH<8, so perhaps they just make sure that off-road stuff is at the acidic end of that.

I was in Norn Iron over the weekend and was amazed at how easy it is to buy red diesel at filling stations for (nudge-nudge, wink-wink) off-road use. The only place I know on the mainland which sells it is the filling station just south of Wooler in Northumberland.
 
chrishscorp said:
+1
I doubt that this is even on the radar for HMG
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I imagine that's correct. A friend who works for HMRC said that they had a load of last minute work coming in from firms who'd ignored advice. I can't remember the details but it related to some certification HMRC had told them to get in advance and nobody bothered until now.

On the bright side, he said that HMRC had planned for every single eventuality and would be able to cope with any outcome. Apart from the one we actually get (his words). :D:D
 
JumbleDuck said:
Apparently it goes red with pH<7. Google suggests that diesel fuel is typically 5.5<pH<8, so perhaps they just make sure that off-road stuff is at the acidic end of that.

I was in Norn Iron over the weekend and was amazed at how easy it is to buy red diesel at filling stations for (nudge-nudge, wink-wink) off-road use. The only place I know on the mainland which sells it is the filling station just south of Wooler in Northumberland.
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There are plenty in rural areas. They supply farmers, people with generators, builders for concrete mixers and Kubota Tonka toys etc etc.
Most don't put up a sign with the price, like they do for derv and unleaded. But I saw one in Sussex the other day.
 
lw395 said:
There are plenty in rural areas. They supply farmers, people with generators, builders for concrete mixers and Kubota Tonka toys etc etc.
Most don't put up a sign with the price, like they do for derv and unleaded. But I saw one in Sussex the other day.
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Thanks. I've never seen one anywhere here (SW Scotland), which is about as rural is it gets, and I think I know every filling station in the area. Perhaps it's all bulk deliveries here.
 
awol said:
The problem in Tobermory is that the road fuel is subsidised by our government but marked fuel is not. If you are going to the garage anyway, buy road diesel. The pump on the pontoon is red.
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Yes, that's my understanding. Do you think anyone actually buys the red from the pump at the garage? :D
 
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