Anyone using a Manson Supreme Anchor?

[Ifraser]

Hi... Seeking views on the effectiveness of your manson supreme! I don't want to turn this into an eternal anchor debate thread because, after much online research, I already spent a lot of money on a 20kg manson supreme for my C-Kip 40 trawler yacht. Initially it wouldn't even set. I took it back to the shop and found the shank was welded off centre and not straight so it was replaced. The new new one does now set but it certainly isn't blowing me away. It doesn't set very fast and can often be pulled out with just a gentle application of astern. I've chatted on facebook around the world on various groups and their experiences are that it should set fast and hold like glue! I've not had a chance to experiment as much as I'd like to yet but initial impressions are a long way below expectation. What are your experiences?
I appreciate all the advice that may be forthcoming about length of chain etc but, without waffling about experience and qualifications and trying not to to sound up myself, I know how to anchor and teach others how. As I say not trying to be up myself but I know the first comments would be about chain and scope etc so just saving people some time on that one. I have 60m of 8mm chain. Of course I'm open to advice but what I'm really looking for is experience of other users in the UK so that if needs be I can go back to manson for redress if it's not performing. Thanks very much. Iain

 

[Storyline]

The Mason is very similar to the Rocna and we have found that performance in sand is excellent but less so in mud - see several recent threads on here.

So, what type of bottom are you having the problems in ?

 

[Ifraser]

All of them! But primarily I was unimpressed with its sand performance....off of sandbanks beach in Poole and studland (away from the eel grass) it took an awful lot of scope and some time to get it to set and hold against gentle astern pressure. I usually let the elements set it but for a peaceful nights sleep I like to be able to pull back with at least tickover power and have it hold fast. At least 50% of the time it's popped out when I've done that. Not what I expected and wondering if there is still something wrong....

 

[Storyline]

All of them! But primarily I was unimpressed with its sand performance....off of sandbanks beach in Poole and studland (away from the eel grass) it took an awful lot of scope and some time to get it to set and hold against gentle astern pressure. I usually let the elements set it but for a peaceful nights sleep I like to be able to pull back with at least tickover power and have it hold fast. At least 50% of the time it's popped out when I've done that. Not what I expected and wondering if there is still something wrong....

That is very surprising - as said above the Manson & Rocna are virtually identical apart from the long slot.
So with sand I would guess that we get the anchor to set first time and with no particular finesse in digging it in more than 9 out of 10 times. Just lay it, drop back veering about 4-5 x depth and fairly quickly build the revs astern. No issues usually and if I go back smartly we get the famed jerk as it bites. Have got to know roughly how many revs it takes to get the chain taught and lie directly to the anchor (plus confirmed by swmbo on the bow) and then if I apply full revs it will set with just a metre or two of backward motion.

It does seem very strange that your first one was manufactured incorrectly as from what I understand Manson has very good quality control so surely this would be easily spotted in the factory. Not sure they still make all the anchors in NZ but they used to. Just as an outside possibility do you think you are being sold fakes ?

The guy that knows a lot about these anchors is called Jonathan Neeves, he is a yachting journalist and posts here on anchor threads. Have not seen any posts for a while so maybe he is off cruising. Might be worth dropping him a pm.

Just to finish by saying that we have found our Rocna not to be the perfect anchor that we thought it would be. Have 20kg one (NZ origin) with 36' medium displacement boat and use 3/8" chain. Have to say though that we are fairly careful in setting it but it often takes more than one go in bottoms other than sand.

It is a mystery and I agree that something seems not to be right somewhere. Did you usually have success with your previous anchor and if so what type was that ? Edit: just re-read your original post and see that you know how to anchor so that question is irrelevant

 

[Storyline]

Just wondering now if there is any significant differences between the Manson & Rocna. They look virtually identical on the pictures online and when I have seen them on other boats they look similar but have never seen them side by side. There may be a subtle difference that accounts for the dissimilar performance in sand. Have never really been taken by the slot but surely that cannot have anything to do with it .....

 

[Davy_S]

Could you not borrow a friends CQR to try, I would think that would hold better, you could then sell the Manson and have change left over for a good meal.

 

[oldvarnish]

I took a Manson Supreme to Patagonia where it had one or two severe tests, and had no problems. However, it was about 5kg oversized for the boat which may be a factor. It never failed to set first time, and never dragged in quite testing conditions in mud, sand, rock or kelp.

The only snag is that it didn't fit neatly into my bow roller and tended to rattle from side to side, which was an annoyance rather than a problem.

I've now reverted to my Spade anchor as the Manson is oversized for home waters. I rate the Spade highly too.

 

[Ifraser]

Thanks for the replies so far. I had a 20kg bruce which the manson replaces. The Bruce was fine on sand and "easy" bottoms but struggled with rocky or weedy bottoms and on more than one occasions recovered a lovely boulder off the sea bed for me! I'd been having problems with the bruce in some of my favourite anchorages such as worbarrow bay, Dorset where the bottom is rock strewn gravel. Having done a lot of research I was hopeful the manson might assist in such circumstances. In fairness I've yet to get a chance to try it there but have, so far, been seriously underwhelmed by its performance in your big standard easy to set sandy or muddy bottoms. I've also heard much of the characteristic "jolt" that someone mentions above and have yet to experience that at all. From the worldwide facebook chats that where I've discussed the same issue people talk of swmbo being almost jolted off the bow... Definitely not had that! As for whether it could be fake....I bought it from a reputable chandlers (force 4) and it is fully marked up with the manson logo's etc so I sincerely hope not! I am going to experiment further, particularly as I've now fully calibrated my chain so I can evidence scope etc, and if still not impressed I may take it up with the manson importer. Good to hear from others on here to back up my theory that it's not working as advertised! Keep it coming guys. Thanks very much.

 

[vyv_cox]

This photo shows a Manson Supreme photographed recently. It is a fairly large one, sorry don't know exact size, on a circumnavigating Oyster 57. Wind was SE F 4-5 but later became NW F7. The path of the chain is evident during this change as the scope is relatively short in what had been a crowded anchorage. Bottom is typical eastern Med, sandy, maybe a little mud, some weed. The owners told us they had used the Manson throughout their voyage, with great success.

Our 16 kg Rocna in the same conditions was little different.

It does sound as though there is something unusual about your Manson as their performance is usually excellent.

 

[Storyline]

This photo shows a Manson Supreme photographed recently.
.....

.....

Great photo !

 

[dslittle]

Hi... Seeking views on the effectiveness of your manson supreme! I don't want to turn this into an eternal anchor debate thread because, after much online research, I already spent a lot of money on a 20kg manson supreme... Iain

We have a 20kg Supreme. Just spent a few weeks in the Channel Islands, half of the time at anchor. We NEVER moved once. We did have a bit of wind a couple of nights and anchored during Springs. I did dig it in each time with 3000rpm of 75hp.

 

[charles_reed]

Hi... Seeking views on the effectiveness of your manson supreme! I don't want to turn this into an eternal anchor debate thread because, after much online research, I already spent a lot of money on a 20kg manson supreme for my C-Kip 40 trawler yacht. Initially it wouldn't even set. I took it back to the shop and found the shank was welded off centre and not straight so it was replaced. The new new one does now set but it certainly isn't blowing me away. It doesn't set very fast and can often be pulled out with just a gentle application of astern. I've chatted on facebook around the world on various groups and their experiences are that it should set fast and hold like glue! I've not had a chance to experiment as much as I'd like to yet but initial impressions are a long way below expectation. What are your experiences?
I appreciate all the advice that may be forthcoming about length of chain etc but, without waffling about experience and qualifications and trying not to to sound up myself, I know how to anchor and teach others how. As I say not trying to be up myself but I know the first comments would be about chain and scope etc so just saving people some time on that one. I have 60m of 8mm chain. Of course I'm open to advice but what I'm really looking for is experience of other users in the UK so that if needs be I can go back to manson for redress if it's not performing. Thanks very much. Iain

20kg Manson on a CKip40 trawler. Sounds more than a little light. Most of the "new age" anchors seem to demand a heavier anchor than CQR or Delta. Manson are terribly coy about sizing their anchors to boat size, but Rocna 20kg is suitable for a 7 tonne yacht of your length - I suspect that you need something like a 40kg Manson Supreme.
Did Manson have any input into the sizing of their anchor for your boat, if so you may have a case against them. If you chose it entirely off your own opinion then I think you have no case against them.

 

[GrahamM376]

We have a 20kg Supreme on a 38ft 9 ton boat and it has always set first time, every time, whatever the bottom. I control the chain by hand on the gypsy wheel, so once the anchor is on the bottom, only the boat's drift pulls chain out - don't dump a pile on top of the anchor. I gently snub it a few times until the required scope is out and then power it in. The only negative point about the anchor (in my opinion) is attaching chain to the slot - I don't want it tripping if I drift over it when the tide turns.

EDIT - we have 10mm chain with a swivel and then a few links to the anchor. Normally go for 5:1 but has held in 30kt+ gusts at 3:1.

 

[charles_reed]

We have a 20kg Supreme. Just spent a few weeks in the Channel Islands, half of the time at anchor. We NEVER moved once. We did have a bit of wind a couple of nights and anchored during Springs. I did dig it in each time with 3000rpm of 75hp.

Yes, but are you over 12.9m and weighing 20 tonnes?

 

[vyv_cox]

20kg Manson on a CKip40 trawler. Sounds more than a little light. Most of the "new age" anchors seem to demand a heavier anchor than CQR or Delta. Manson are terribly coy about sizing their anchors to boat size, but Rocna 20kg is suitable for a 7 tonne yacht of your length - I suspect that you need something like a 40kg Manson Supreme.
Did Manson have any input into the sizing of their anchor for your boat, if so you may have a case against them. If you chose it entirely off your own opinion then I think you have no case against them.

Sizing charts for both are:
Rocna - http://www.rocna.com/sites/default/files/sizing_graph_metric.jpg
Manson - http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages/RecommendedSizes/SupremeRecomSizes.htm

Manson quote a 45 lb (20 kg) Supreme for a 40 ft, 15 tonne cruising yacht. I think the Rocna chart is one of the better ones, taking both length and weight into account. Rocna would recommend a size up for that length and weight, 25 kg. However, it does not sound as if the OP's problem is anything to do with anchor weight.

 

[bromleybysea]

I have sailed with a CQR on various boats for years and a couple of years ago decided to change to a "modern" anchor and bought a Manston. Frankly, I haven't noticed much of a difference in performance. The Manson is easier to handle and the lack of an articulated stock means that I don't get my fingers pinched, and it's a better fit in my anchor locker, but otherwise, I'm not sure that the type of anchor, within limits, is as important as weight, adequate chain and sound technique. Having an anchor of appropriate weight, using a decent scope of chain, and making sure the scope is well laid out, not dumped on the anchor and ensuring it's well dug in, all the anchors mentioned should perform adequately.

 

[lustyd]

I'm not sure that the type of anchor, within limits, is as important as weight, adequate chain and sound technique. Having an anchor of appropriate weight, using a decent scope of chain, and making sure the scope is well laid out, not dumped on the anchor and ensuring it's well dug in, all the anchors mentioned should perform adequately.

Actually most of what you list here is the benefit to your modern anchor, and being thoroughly trained in using old anchors is probably why you have noticed no difference. A modern anchor means you can dump the chain, it means you don't need to fart about "digging in" and don't need to rev the tits off your engine in reverse "just in case". It also means you don't have to use huge amounts of chain (some on here have suggested thin dyneema or wire may be better). The change in design wasn't much to do with holding power but in ability to dig in, so that at the turn of tide you won't disappear off like the CQR had a tendency to do. The RYA training recommends a position check every 30 minutes including over night for this reason while people with modern anchors sleep soundly expecting their anchor to dig back in after a turn.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The change in design wasn't much to do with holding power but in ability to dig in, so that at the turn of tide you won't disappear off like the CQR had a tendency to do.

Please don't tell my CQR that. It doesn't know.

The RYA training recommends a position check every 30 minutes including over night for this reason while people with modern anchors sleep soundly expecting their anchor to dig back in after a turn.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[Ifraser]

The 45lb 20kg is recommended up to 45' and although I accept my boat may be on the heavier side I could understand if it was dragging in a severe blow but having had a 20kg bruce that could take at least 1000rpm astern after gentle setting in sand I'm still surprised that the manson is barely matching that.... More testing required before I completely write it off....but initial impressions are not amazing. The one thing that I read throughout all the different anchor reviews was that whatever "new generation" anchor you choose it will be a lot better than a traditional design...Same weight new anchor, same chain... not super impressive yet but will persevere

 

[Happydaze]

I changed to a 20kg Manson supreme early last season from a 45lb CQR on a 36 ft Westerly. I would love my CQR back as it set first time in more than 9 out of 10 anchorages and never failed to reset on the turn of the wind. The Manson has often taken 3 to 6 attempts to set and has failed to reset on the turn of the wind in under 30 knots. It does not stow on the bow roller as well as the CQR but that is something I don't lose any sleep over.