Anyone in Lymington got courtesy flags for the Channel Islands?

[Angele]

No, not moving the goalposts. My reference to the terms "British Isles" and "United Kingdom" was a shorthand way of saying that one was geographical and the other political.

And the error was the initial implication that a geographical term had any bearing on flags.

The Jersey ensign is indeed a new invention. It can only be worn by Jersey registered boats. It is not mandatory, however, and Jersey vessels can (if their owners wish) fly the red ensign - just as Cornish boats can. In practice, many Jersey boats still fly the red ensign - unless it is so tatty as to be disreputable, many resisted the temptation to go out and buy one just because people decided that, since Guernsey had one, Jersey needed one too.

The Jersey courtesy flag has, however, been around for as long as I have been on the Earth. It is most definitely not new.

 

[lustyd]

How come the I of W , Cornwall and other places have courtesy flags then and didn't Jersey use the red ensign until recently.

They don't. They have county flags which some people erroniously use as courtesy flags because they like flags. Places like the Isle of Man (a different jurisdiction) have a courtesy flag because they are a different place.

 

[MASH]

Jersey vessels can (if their owners wish) fly the red ensign - just as Cornish boats can.

I don't know if the nature of the UK has recently changed (but suspect it hasn't) and CI vessels are still British registered and thus under the red ensign, however the suggestion that Cornish boats may have their own ensign is TOTAL AND UTTER IDIOTIC COBBLERS, just as it would be to suggest that boats from Slough or Oban might have their own...What on EARTH are you people thinking of? An ensign is a legal statement of nationality, not a personal opinion on a local football club! For Shame! Grow up, will you?

Jesus, these people who think they can make up their own rules! It's pathetic!

 

[akyaka]

They don't. They have county flags which some people erroniously use as courtesy flags because they like flags. Places like the Isle of Man (a different jurisdiction) have a courtesy flag because they are a different place.

Courtesy flags are just that whether they relate to a country,bailwick or county . So anywhere can have them and does as evidenced by virtually every flag manufacturer supplying them.Unlike ensigns there are no rules, however I acknowledge that some countries are sticklers for wanting courtesy flags hoisted and in good condition , but thats more to do with expecting respect for their national flag. I know I live most of the year where this is the case.


http://www.theflagloft.co.uk/Courtesy.htm

 

[James_Calvert]

The Jersey courtesy flag has, however, been around for as long as I have been on the Earth. It is most definitely not new.

Is this the one with the toad on it?

 

[lustyd]

Courtesy flags are just that whether they relate to a country,bailwick or county .

No they really aren't. http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/courtesy.aspx

 

[Angele]

I don't know if the nature of the UK has recently changed (but suspect it hasn't) and CI vessels are still British registered and thus under the red ensign, however the suggestion that Cornish boats may have their own ensign is TOTAL AND UTTER IDIOTIC COBBLERS, just as it would be to suggest that boats from Slough or Oban might have their own...What on EARTH are you people thinking of? An ensign is a legal statement of nationality, not a personal opinion on a local football club! For Shame! Grow up, will you?

Jesus, these people who think they can make up their own rules! It's pathetic!

I don't know why you are addressing your commments at me (by quoting me).

I did not say that Cornish boats can fly their own flag as an ensign. I said that Cornish vessels can fly the red one.

A boat in Cornwall is, however, not OBLIGED to fly the red one, since there are alternatives (blue, defaced red....)

 

[akyaka]

No they really aren't. http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/courtesy.aspx

Wondered when that last refuge the great god RYA would be referred to . Even they say its a custom not a legal requirement and custom and practice changes with usage as evidenced by people flying other than "a small version of the coastal state’s ensign" ; in Jersey for example.

 

[lustyd]

Wondered when that last refuge the great god RYA would be referred to . Even they say its a custom not a legal requirement and custom and practice changes with usage as evidenced by people flying other than "a small version of the coastal state’s ensign" ; in Jersey for example.

I knew they were a bad choice of source for that info when I posted it! Hopefully someone will offer a better one as I can't be arsed to look

 

[akyaka]

I knew they were a bad choice of source

Common ground !

 

[Seajet]

Courtesy flags are just that, a nice touch which won't do any harm.

However the Guernsey flag looks from a distance like the International Code ' V ' for distress, " I require Assistance " - diagonal red lines on a white field with just a tiny crest to differentiate it - so might cause embarassment in the unlikely event someone still recognises the flags !

 

[Angele]

Courtesy flags are just that, a nice touch which won't do any harm.

However the Guernsey flag looks from a distance like the International Code ' V ' for distress, " I require Assistance " - diagonal red lines on a white field with just a tiny crest to differentiate it - so might cause embarassment in the unlikely event someone still recognises the flags !

Seajet

I think you are confusing the Guernsey and Jersey flags.

http://www.force4.co.uk/1911/Force-4-Courtesy-Flag---Jersey.html
http://www.force4.co.uk/1910/Force-4-Courtesy-Flag---Guernsey.html

As I mentioned earlier, as a Jerseyman I dislike being mistaken for being English, but that is nowhere near as bad as calling me a Guernseyman !!

 

[Mariner69]

Courtesy flags are just that, a nice touch which won't do any harm.

The law of the country being visited dictates the significance, if any, to be applied to the courtesy flag.

In Angola, a number of years back, a friend of mine allowed the courtesy flag to drape on the deck as it was being lowered at sunset. It took a lot of diplomatic effort, and some fiscal lubrication, to prevent the guy pointing the AK47 at him from taking him away.

Whilst the Channel Islands are not hitherto suspected of exhibiting that degree of concern, it should be borne in mind that some places can become decidedly miffed at perceived insults, real or unintended, so it is not in the widest sense a subject for too much levity. Pedant filter reapplied now!

 

[Seajet]

The law of the country being visited dictates the significance, if any, to be applied to the courtesy flag.

In Angola, a number of years back, a friend of mine allowed the courtesy flag to drape on the deck as it was being lowered at sunset. It took a lot of diplomatic effort, and some fiscal lubrication, to prevent the guy pointing the AK47 at him from taking him away.

Whilst the Channel Islands are not hitherto suspected of exhibiting that degree of concern, it should be borne in mind that some places can become decidedly miffed at perceived insults, real or unintended, so it is not in the widest sense a subject for too much levity. Pedant filter reapplied now!

Well we really shouldn't visit such places in anything less than a type 45 or Arleigh Burke Destroyer !

 

[Babylon]

We're currently cruising the South Coast, en-route to CIs, when we have a good slant and a not too excitable sea-state.

Have so far seen loads of visiting German and Dutch boats, all having the small red ensign courtesy flags hoisted on the starboard signal halyard - as we do (small tricolour) when visiting France.

Having started, and now read this thread, I understand the distinction and I'm not troubling myself with getting courtesy flags for Guernsey or Jersey.

But next time I'm in Devon or Cornwall, I'll be certain to hoist their county flags upside down!

 

[Bandit]

My Boat is reguistered in Guernsey, it is also Part One British registry, through the Guernsey Office.

The official flag for me to fly is the normal red duster.

We can fly the red duster with the Norman Cross on it which I do.

I assume therefore that the correct Courtesy falg for Guernsey is either a red duster flown from the Starboard cross trees or a red duster with the Norman Cross on it.

PS why did Jersey nick the scotish flag ?

 

[Angele]

[snip]I assume therefore that the correct Courtesy falg for Guernsey is either a red duster flown from the Starboard cross trees or a red duster with the Norman Cross on it.

No, white background with the red cross and gold within. The courtesy flag for most countries is that nation's ensign, but that is not universally true.

PS why did Jersey nick the scotish flag ?

It didn't. Unless I'm going mad, the Scottish (St Andrew) flag is white diagonals on a blue background, whereas Jersey is red diagonals on a white background*.

You wouldn't accuse Belgium of copying France's flag (or vice versa) and what about Italy and RoI?


* Edit: plus the shield

 

[akyaka]

The correct courtesy flag for yachts visiting Jersey is the Red Ensign and not the Jersey flag. Yachts visiting Guernsey may fly the Guernsey Ensign or the Red Ensign.

This is taken from the St Helier Yacht Club site

 

[macd]

The British Isles is a geographical concept, not a political one.

Correct (and not even a unanimously agreed geographical one, as any Irishman will tell you). But 'British Islands' has a political meaning. It's on the front of my passport and perhaps (as a Jerseyman) on yours, too.

 

[akyaka]

Correct (and not even a unanimously agreed geographical one, as any Irishman will tell you). But 'British Islands' has a political meaning. It's on the front of my passport and perhaps (as a Jerseyman) on yours, too.

and which country is that . Its certainly not on my British passport.