Anyone had an (off site) unit/workshop/garage for boat work? (thinking insurance, business rates, security, etc.)

[dankilb]

As per title, basically… Has anyone got any practical experience (and/or warnings or reassurances!) of using an off-site ‘unit’ of some sort for boat your work and storage? Has anyone done anything like this themselves (other than using a home or, say, existing business workshop)?

I’ve just seen a comparatively affordable (former electrical engineers’) small garage/workshop to rent. I’ve already fallen in love with it, predictably!

I’m now trying to gauge any extra costs and estimate a total before getting any deeper into it. Specifically, I’m most concerned ered about:

• Would I have to pay business rates? It would be for my private use. I do have a sole trader business I could use to ‘legitimate’ my renting a unit (if such a thing were needed?). However, as it is just for working on my own boat, I’d rather leave it private and free of tax liabilities if at all possible.
• What about insurance? (security comes separately below - and no, it isn’t the best neighbourhood…!) Can you get insurance for this? What would I be looking for? It seems a like a reasonable risk so I’m expecting a hit. But any idea of premium costs?
• And yes, security. I’ve seen what work contacts have done with upgraded roller shutters (this is the only means of access for the public/street - and no ground floor windows ?? - suspect there’s just a back door somewhere), door sensors to trigger cctv, phone apps, alarms and lights obviously, and maybe WiFi cctv with ring-style voice to tell the scrotes you’re on the them (if you dare?!). But I’m sure all of this costs £££ - and more non-boat work required to set it up. And would it really stop anyone? There wouldn’t be many valuable or specialist tools or stores - but they’re all valuable to me!
• Anything else I should do know?!
• And would anyone else consider doing something like this (in the absence of any other suitable space forthcoming) themselves?

For more info, if interested… my particular rationale is this: With the boat finally (hopefully?!) soon moving out from a long stay in a boatyard where any messy work goes and there’s space aplenty - we’re going to relocate to our (thankfully very nearby) marina. We live in a top floor city centre apartment nearby (dictated by our commutes). But we still have big projects (fabricating complete new standing rigging and loads of interior joinery - which I want to pre-fabricate off the boat - among others). I’m anxiously and increasingly aware that I currently have no practicable space to do this work. (Aside from chancing my luck in/around the marina, which I don’t want to contemplate)

To solve my problem, I could put down a year’s rent on a suitable garage or workshop space. It’d need water + electric and a modest amount of space to work (so any old lockup-style single car garage likely won’t work). I work flexibly and could potentially free up to 3 days a week on the prevailing projects, as needed.

So if anyone can suggest whether I might be on to something - or whether the current impending mountain of boatwork is causing me not to think straight - any insights would be appreciated. It seems a modest risk (but could be an absolutely boon/hoot if it worked!).

TIA

 

[penfold]

Set yourself up as a boatbuilding club(membership = you), non-profits can often get away with paying low/zero rates unless the unit is vast in size or obviously carrying out work for profit.

 

[dankilb]

Set yourself up as a boatbuilding club(membership = you), non-profits can often get away with paying low/zero rates unless the unit is vast in size or obviously carrying out work for profit.

In searching a few more listings this morning (talking Facebook marketplace not commercial estate agents!) - quite a few advertise ‘no rates’ anyway ??

The one I particularly like doesn’t appear on the Revenue’s list of rateable properties by postcode either.

…but perhaps this is where insurance may be a problem, as it’s almost as if some of these premises don’t officially ‘exist’?!

 

[Blueboatman]

Just make sure it’s ok to run power tools etc and eg smelly fibreglassing ( say) on a quiet Sunday morning ?
Some local authorities can be very hot on this , even diy
And you can never have enough metal when it comes to keeping miscreants out . Weld, weld weld !
Roof is vulnerable too of course
You probably want water, good neighbourly relationships , not a ghetto unvisited area

 

[ean_p]

As per title, basically… Has anyone got any practical experience (and/or warnings or reassurances!) of using an off-site ‘unit’ of some sort for boat your work and storage? Has anyone done anything like this themselves (other than using a home or, say, existing business workshop)?

I’ve just seen a comparatively affordable (former electrical engineers’) small garage/workshop to rent. I’ve already fallen in love with it, predictably!

I’m now trying to gauge any extra costs and estimate a total before getting any deeper into it. Specifically, I’m most concerned ered about:

• Would I have to pay business rates? It would be for my private use. I do have a sole trader business I could use to ‘legitimate’ my renting a unit (if such a thing were needed?). However, as it is just for working on my own boat, I’d rather leave it private and free of tax liabilities if at all possible.
• What about insurance? (security comes separately below - and no, it isn’t the best neighbourhood…!) Can you get insurance for this? What would I be looking for? It seems a like a reasonable risk so I’m expecting a hit. But any idea of premium costs?
• And yes, security. I’ve seen what work contacts have done with upgraded roller shutters (this is the only means of access for the public/street - and no ground floor windows ?? - suspect there’s just a back door somewhere), door sensors to trigger cctv, phone apps, alarms and lights obviously, and maybe WiFi cctv with ring-style voice to tell the scrotes you’re on the them (if you dare?!). But I’m sure all of this costs £££ - and more non-boat work required to set it up. And would it really stop anyone? There wouldn’t be many valuable or specialist tools or stores - but they’re all valuable to me!
• Anything else I should do know?!
• And would anyone else consider doing something like this (in the absence of any other suitable space forthcoming) themselves?

For more info, if interested… my particular rationale is this: With the boat finally (hopefully?!) soon moving out from a long stay in a boatyard where any messy work goes and there’s space aplenty - we’re going to relocate to our (thankfully very nearby) marina. We live in a top floor city centre apartment nearby (dictated by our commutes). But we still have big projects (fabricating complete new standing rigging and loads of interior joinery - which I want to pre-fabricate off the boat - among others). I’m anxiously and increasingly aware that I currently have no practicable space to do this work. (Aside from chancing my luck in/around the marina, which I don’t want to contemplate)

To solve my problem, I could put down a year’s rent on a suitable garage or workshop space. It’d need water + electric and a modest amount of space to work (so any old lockup-style single car garage likely won’t work). I work flexibly and could potentially free up to 3 days a week on the prevailing projects, as needed.

So if anyone can suggest whether I might be on to something - or whether the current impending mountain of boatwork is causing me not to think straight - any insights would be appreciated. It seems a modest risk (but could be an absolutely boon/hoot if it worked!).

TIA

If you could site a container in or near the boat at either the boat yard and or the marina then that is the way I would go. A / The workshop is really no more than a space and an existing one is a space made for the previous owner. A container would be your virgin space and adapted to what you would want with regard to security, layout storage etc etc. It has the added benefit that you can sell it to recoup most of your investment if not make a profit at a later date.

 

[dankilb]

Roof is vulnerable too of course

Yikes! Didn’t think of that!

During my search I was originally taken by a couple of Victorian end-of-terrace-type vacant local commercial garages that are up for (cheap).

But now I’m seeing the same sorts of prices can also get you more conventional workshop units in very small industrial estates. Those might be more secure and less conspicuous.

We’re in NW England so plenty of choice up here (for better or worse!).

The work itself will be low impact (e.g no large-scale polyester glasswork or grinding) and the tools, while valuable to me (and I’d try to protect/secure to the hilt), aren’t anything specialist or hugely big-ticket.

 

[dankilb]

If you could site a container in or near the boat at either the boat yard and or the marina then that is the way I would go. A / The workshop is really no more than a space and an existing one is a space made for the previous owner. A container would be your virgin space and adapted to what you would want with regard to security, layout storage etc etc. It has the added benefit that you can sell it to recoup most of your investment if not make a profit at a later date.

Thanks for the suggestion. Frustratingly, I could almost certainly site a container next to the boat where she stands now… but that’s a 3 hour round trip and the plan is to move here to our local, but city-centre, marina next.

I have nevertheless looked into this… Container hire seems so cheap up here - I’ve been tempted by that (rather than actually owning one). And I do even have an option of a space for it (in the goods yard of a mate’s ‘proper’ factory/business). But there’s no easy electric or water there. And evenings and weekends it’s a ghost town, with no real security (their unit is like Ft Knox inside - but all goods yards themselves are totally unsecured in that ind estate).

Just for context - the cheapest (rate free!) small industrial unit I’ve found is £100pw for 500ft, with roller shutter, power and water. That is in a small business estate too - not just round the back of some houses!

 

[northwind]

Renting a commercial premises, you will be liable for rates, regardless of how you choose to use it. It may well qualify for small business rate relief if its your only unit and its rateable value is below the threshold, but you will need to talk to the local council. Worth a call as they usually don't bite.

 

[dankilb]

Renting a commercial premises, you will be liable for rates, regardless of how you choose to use it. It may well qualify for small business rate relief if its your only unit and its rateable value is below the threshold, but you will need to talk to the local council. Worth a call as they usually don't bite.

Got you - will do - thanks for the info.

It sounds like the ‘rate free’ listings I saw might not have been under the radar, as I’d presumed, but perhaps just legitimately under the threshold?

We are talking very small, basic, low value units, of course. At best could accommodate a single, jobbing, self-employee doing something constrained and modest.

But for me it’d be massive overkill (and at the same time, a bit of a dream come true!)

Still worry about insuring the thing. What is it? Private storage unit? (In which case I already know my ‘marine’ stuff is uninsurable - as it is in my current self-store lockup ?) Or just insure it as my self-employed premises?

Regardless, it’ll be a year (fixed), so costs are naturally constrained. Whether or not they ultimately make sense, though, is another question…!

 

[penfold]

Renting a commercial premises, you will be liable for rates, regardless of how you choose to use it. It may well qualify for small business rate relief if its your only unit and its rateable value is below the threshold, but you will need to talk to the local council. Worth a call as they usually don't bite.

There are clauses that relieve charities and non-profits from paying rates regardless of SBR eligibility; this is one reason why high streets are filled with so many charity shops.

 

[ean_p]

Got you - will do - thanks for the info.

It sounds like the ‘rate free’ listings I saw might not have been under the radar, as I’d presumed, but perhaps just legitimately under the threshold?

We are talking very small, basic, low value units, of course. At best could accommodate a single, jobbing, self-employee doing something constrained and modest.

But for me it’d be massive overkill (and at the same time, a bit of a dream come true!)

Still worry about insuring the thing. What is it? Private storage unit? (In which case I already know my ‘marine’ stuff is uninsurable - as it is in my current self-store lockup ?) Or just insure it as my self-employed premises?

Regardless, it’ll be a year (fixed), so costs are naturally constrained. Whether or not they ultimately make sense, though, is another question…!

If your renting this on a real 'commercial' basis rather than from a 'mate' then contact DavidonMersea on here as he makes a living renting small commercial properties and could perhaps give you some pointers to potential issues you may face or otherwise!
@DavidonMersea

 

[northwind]

There are clauses that relieve charities and non-profits from paying rates regardless of SBR eligibility; this is one reason why high streets are filled with so many charity shops.

Yes, but he is neither of these... I suppose he could put one of those coin machines that release a lifeboat* when you put a penny in the top outside to help with costs...

*The lifeboat released is a model, not a real one...

 

[penfold]

Yes, but he is neither of these... I suppose he could put one of those coin machines that release a lifeboat* when you put a penny in the top outside to help with costs...

He can set himself up as either, it's not rocket science; given the absurd rates that are charged why wouldn't you?

 

[northwind]

.

He can set himself up as either, it's not rocket science; given the absurd rates that are charged why wouldn't you?

Because he would more than likely qualify for rates relief anyway on a small unit that he has mentioned, so no need to mess about with fiddling and trying to dodge taxes...

 

[dankilb]

The more I look, the vast majority of listings either mention 'no rates', 'ineligible', 'zero rated' etc.

I think I can therefore set 'no rates' as an achievable must-have criteria, so no need for any ducking or dodging. Want this to be as 'easy' as possible! Incidentally, many also include water (some even electric). I'm guessing they're not on the Postcode Address File and are just sub-divided around the back of other businesses/estates, sharing the landlord's utilities.

There also seem plenty around. Price range £400-600 a month. The bigger ones getting you toilets, offices, and other things you wouldn't really 'need'.

Quite encouraged by what I'm finding, hearing and thinking so far, I must admit!

Question remains - can I get it sensibly insured?

 

[dankilb]

So far, I cannot find any sort of insurance product/provider catering for 'private' use of an lockup/workshop (or even a standalone storage unit).

But, I have had a quite if I insured it as a premises for my sole trader business @ £500-odd annually inc. public liability (which I obviously already hold - but would cover this building) and a modest level of cover for tools, stock, business equipment, and even goods in transit.

As a sole trader, am I right in thinking all assets can be considered part of the business? I'm thinking about tools I purchased long before I ever registered self-employed, for example. My 'business' is marine-related. But it's also measurably a very small side-show to my professional 'day job'.

Could I cover my boaty tools and a few odd bits could be insured as part of a sole trader policy on the premises? My intention could always be to bring my vessel into charter use? (I would love to - but could never afford coding!) It's certainly a hard thing to ever disprove...

 

[penfold]

In what way is it any of those things? Claiming relief legitimately is not fiddling, dodging or illegal. Even a modest boat takes up a large space which may exceed the SBR threshold; the OP did not specify what size his boat is.

Because he would more than likely qualify for rates relief anyway on a small unit that he has mentioned, so no need to mess about with fiddling and trying to dodge taxes...

 

[dankilb]

In what way is it any of those things? Claiming relief legitimately is not fiddling, dodging or illegal. Even a modest boat takes up a large space which may exceed the SBR threshold; the OP did not specify what size his boat is.

Just to clarify - the boat (41’ AWB) is taken care of! This premises would only be for boatwork (and a few other loosely-related projects) and storage of some bulkier bits off the boat, materials, etc.

I also have SORN vehicle I could do with storing in any spare space.

Thats an idea of the requirement.

I reckon 500sq ft would do me - from the research I’ve done today. Cheapest so far £90 a week all inc ??