Anyone ever completely changed their wheel steering system to another one?

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steve yates

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Current system is a very old whitlock Titan system (I think, 1974 westerly longbow ketch)
I was told before on here that a hydraulic system would have no feedback and feel "dead". Currently its two riggin cables from quadrant to a drum attached to the wheel via a shaft. Wondering about changing that to a cable and chain system, or push/pull morse/teleflex system.

Could do with advice on whether its a viable ide, how difficult it is, what might be required and whether it is actually worth doing or if I should just refurbish the existing system.

Steering is a bit on the stiff side, with a tendency for the wheel to run to stb whenever it gets a chance. I end up with a sore shoulder on one side after long bouts of steering.
Ta.
 
Presumably this turning right malarkey is when you're motoring? If so, it's the way your prop is throwing the water off and it'll do that whichever 'mechanical' system you use. Hydraulics would cure it, but at the cost of it becoming horrible under sail. I'd use an autopilot and let it get the dodgy shoulder.
 
I would have thought that replacement with new would not be financially justified on your bargain boat, but refurbishment would be both cheaper in outlay and quicker in labour time spent fettling rather than working out how to fit new parts.
I just removed the wheel steering system from my bargain boat as she wasn't designed for it and the cables were draggY.

I'd be surprised if it was the wheel system causing a starboard bias TBH, the cables might be stiff but that just makes it difficult to move, not more likely move one way. A hydraulic system might be differ though. Are the rudder and keel symmetrical?
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
Presumably this turning right malarkey is when you're motoring? If so, it's the way your prop is throwing the water off and it'll do that whichever 'mechanical' system you use. Hydraulics would cure it, but at the cost of it becoming horrible under sail. I'd use an autopilot and let it get the dodgy shoulder.
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Nope, under sail or power. She will steer straight for a bit, then the wheel will start to spin to the right. Never the left. It is harder to turn to the left than the right too.
 
There must be something asymmetric about the boat then. I've had one boat where the keel wasn't actually on the centre line, but was at least parallel to it, I've seen plenty of boats with the keels mounted 'squint' too, but start with the easy one - have you got a lot of weed on one side due to always mooring the same way round? And remind me, have you got a fin or bilge keels?
 
steve yates said:
Could do with advice on whether its a viable ide, how difficult it is, what might be required and whether it is actually worth doing or if I should just refurbish the existing system.
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Not financially viable. Much cheaper to refurb your existing system.

When the boat's out of the water, does the rudder look central? And is the rudder symmetrical?
 
pvb said:
Not financially viable. Much cheaper to refurb your existing system.

When the boat's out of the water, does the rudder look central? And is the rudder symmetrical?
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Ok, though I think that may depend on the supply of the conduit! I have a website for a guy in emsworth who deals with old whitlock parts.

I'll have a look next time I'm down, I havent noticed them out of line, but haven't actually specifically looked for that.
 
Dont forget, it seems to be a relatively unusual system, as in the cables are wound round a drum, from memory, I'm not convinced they had the same number of turns, think it was 1 for one side and 1.5 for the other when I put it back together again, don't know if that could have a bearing on it.
 
steve yates said:
Ok, though I think that may depend on the supply of the conduit! I have a website for a guy in emsworth who deals with old whitlock parts.
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Does it need new conduit? If you suspect the conduit is wearing, could you perhaps rotate it by 180 degrees, this would put the cable rubbing on an unused area of conduit.
 
You mention Emsworth, which goes along with what I was going to say as soon as I started reading your post; on the south coast especially the Chichester Harbour area, lots of cowboy ' man and a dog ' grp repair outfits sprang up after the October 1987 Hurricane carnage, it was well known some keels were re-attached at not quite the original angle !

Do you have any reliable records of what happened to your boat then ?

So have a good look and measure when your boat is dried out ashore next, in the meantime letting an autopilot take the strain seems the answer.
 
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Steve. I can remember the seized condition the steering was in when you bought the boat and recollect that what we did then to free it left it far from perfect. Stiff and awkward, but at least the wheel could be moved. Indirect steering with a drum quadrant cable and conduit is never going to be anything as comfortable as a tiller or modern directly linked wheel steering but it should be lot better. I agree with the suggestion that replacing the cables and lubricating the conduit is the first thing to try, there is no reason why everything can not be made to move freely and without bias. (As you know I would be a lot happier with a decent tiller rather than a wee wheel on a boat that size anyway)
The bias problem may relate to the dodgy cable set up but I do not believe it is caused by defective rudder or keel geometry, I looked at this before recommending the boat and again with you when we were trying to free the rudder and I can not believe we would not have noticed, if it is not prop walk it may be more slack or stiffness on one side of the system. The pics. I took at the time do not suggest anything wrong either.
Get it all dismantled, checking each component for slack or stiffness as you go, replace the cables and any bad fixings, make sure the conduits are in line and clean inside ( work an old bit of rope back and forward through each if they are bellmouthed) pump a cartridge of clean new grease into them. Make sure that the wheel and drum move freely and evenly when the cables are off. Grab the rudder and check the bearings for either stiffness or too much slack. The boat sat in our yard for years with until the rudder jammed, it is no surprise that it might take some work to free it properly. There is almost certain to be more resistance in this type of system in one direction than the other which may account for the bias, but if it is all serviced and libricated the difference should not be noticeable.
I am confident it can be sorted to at least the Westerly standard and I do not think that hydraulic or chain is worth trying until you have had everything apart and together again.
 
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Thanks Quandry, and yes, I was planning to refurb the whole system, just wondered if I should be considering a different one while I'm in there at it :)

The other thing I wonder about is the bearing the drum or the shaft sits into. When Ian & I dismantled it, it was very well greased, we had it on and off 2 or 3 times and I have always wondered if we didn't rub quite a bit of the grease off, and it is the bearing causing the stiffness now, after the cable was freed.

The rudder does need a replacement bushing anyway, but I don't think that is the issue here, it's just something I will do while she is out and I have the opportunity. Good tip about the rope, thx.
 
Where was she in October 1987 ? The south coast wasn't the only place hit...

In 1988 we trundled into Cherbourg to find no marina ( I must have been remiss on NTM's ) so had to anchor in the middle, the only bit of France my chums got to see came up on the anchor; then a piledriver barge rebuilding the marina politely asked we'd mind clearing off - nothing to to with us, promise, but there was a huge ' Thunderbirds ' style explosion at the naval base as we left along with others on the tide for Guernsey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Storm_of_1987
 
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