Anyone drive a MK2 Cortina?

[lw395]

Ay thang yew. The DS would have been an even better car if it had got the engine they wanted. It was to be an air-cooled (I think) flat six in front of the transmission, just like a 2CV but beefier. That's why the car got a sloping down bonnet ... which meant that when they copped out and stuck the DS engine in, it had to sit half in teh passenger compartment, resulting in a huge bulge back under the dashboard. The car really deserved better than a clunky old straight four. Sigh.

They tried to make up for it with Wankel engine development in the 70s, but unfortunately a combination of tip seal issues and the oil crises revealed that they had bet the farm on a dud horse. Result: bankruptcy and the Peugeot takeover. I've seen and heard a GS Birotor, and very nice it is too. If only ...

Golden rule of car development:
When in doubt, stick a V6 in it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Golden rule of car development:
When in doubt, stick a V6 in it.

Not a half bad idea, that. Though I love the V8 engine in my friend's Daimler SP250 (Dart). Worst designed car for maintenance ever, though ... you have to take off the exhaust pipe to change the oil filter.

 

[DownWest]

Not a half bad idea, that. Though I love the V8 engine in my friend's Daimler SP250 (Dart). Worst designed car for maintenance ever, though ... you have to take off the exhaust pipe to change the oil filter.

Thanks for that, I nearly bought one back then. But a few issues made me back off.
While going to a school reunion back in the 60s and trundling down the A40 south, a Jag and a Dart passed me having a bit of a dice. Not far ahead the two girls in the Dart had put their hats one and were nicking the Jag driver...

 

[Sans Bateau]

Golden rule of car development:
When in doubt, stick a V6 in it.

Well, to be fair, Citroen sort of took your advice with the SM, they stuck a Maserati V6 in it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Thanks for that, I nearly bought one back then. But a few issues made me back off.
While going to a school reunion back in the 60s and trundling down the A40 south, a Jag and a Dart passed me having a bit of a dice. Not far ahead the two girls in the Dart had put their hats one and were nicking the Jag driver...

Coo. I've heard of the Dart police cars but Have never heard from anyone who actually saw one in action. Puts the TVP Capri 2.8i I mentioned in its place, style-wise if not speed-wise.

Well, to be fair, Citroen sort of took your advice with the SM, they stuck a Maserati V6 in it.

The main problem with that was that, as with the DS, they did PTO from the engine through a forward extension of the camshaft. The SM had a reciprocating air conditioning compressor with a very abrupt clutch, and the shock loading that put on the slightly flimsy camshaft tended to snap it. Unless overwhelmed with a desire for period accuracy, owners now fit modern compressors with a much softer start, and all is well. Still a pig-ugly car, though, and the fact that they all seem to be in 1970s brown does not help one bit.

 

[halcyon]

Thanks for that, I nearly bought one back then. But a few issues made me back off.
While going to a school reunion back in the 60s and trundling down the A40 south, a Jag and a Dart passed me having a bit of a dice. Not far ahead the two girls in the Dart had put their hats one and were nicking the Jag driver...

It was known as a high speed pursuit vehicle



Brian

 

[vyv_cox]

It was known as a high speed pursuit vehicle



Brian

So long as it wasn't very far! The radiator was always too small and they overheated badly. Still a very attractive car though.

 

[Medway Matt]

So long as it wasn't very far! The radiator was always too small and they overheated badly. Still a very attractive car though.

Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, the Dart has always looked like an ugly fish to me!

 

[rotrax]

Coo. I've heard of the Dart police cars but Have never heard from anyone who actually saw one in action.

The late Mike Hailwood was in court for exceeding 100MPH on the Great West Road in his Maserati. He was apparently unaware of the following Daimler Dart V8, and was progressing at a high rate of knots, pulling away from said Daimler with two traffic plod onboard.

He crested a rise to find two lanes of cars stationary just before the Chiswick Flyover. Using his skill-and a decent set of brakes-he stopped in time without tailgating any of the stopped traffic.

Unlike the plod in the Daimler who ended up sitting in a bent two seater in a pile of shattered GRP.

According to Paddy Driver, in who's book " When sex was safe and motor racing dangerous " this tale is related, the Magistrate handed down a very mild fine with a half hidden smile on his face!

The man who designed the triumph motorcycle engines Edward Turner was responsible for the Daimler V8. It was, of course, meant for the Jag Mk2 bodied saloon, not the Dart.

One of my customers had a faded red one-almost pink in fact-the chrome bumpers had almost completely rusted away leaving a vague shape of shiny chrome that one could poke a finger through. I fitted an electronic ignition on this car which left the contact set in place-a Boyer I.D. unit.

It transformed the starting, idle and fuel consumption for under 50 quid, according to my customer who had had it from new.

Result!

 

[DownWest]

It was known as a high speed pursuit vehicle



Brian

Dunno if this was linked to other posters, but worth a look! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYZQi8wtQA very far from FI now.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The man who designed the triumph motorcycle engines Edward Turner was responsible for the Daimler V8. It was, of course, meant for the Jag Mk2 bodied saloon, not the Dart.

I think it might be the motorcycle background which made Turner's V8 so unbelievably sweet. It went into the SP250 and Majestic Major first, and only went into the Daimler 250 body later, after Jaguar bought Daimler from BSA in 1960.

One of my customers had a faded red one-almost pink in fact-the chrome bumpers had almost completely rusted away leaving a vague shape of shiny chrome that one could poke a finger through.

My pal has just spent a small fortune on very nice stainless repro bumpers, as his originals have rusted to bits. Did you know that Quentin Willson is working on a project to build an entire SP250 from spares bought on eBay. I believe he's getting on quite well with it.

I fitted an electronic ignition on this car which left the contact set in place-a Boyer I.D. unit.

It transformed the starting, idle and fuel consumption for under 50 quid, according to my customer who had had it from new.

I shall pass that along, thanks. The Lucas D8 distributor is very hard to get parts for, and while 1-2-3 do a replacement for the Rolls-Royce version, Rolls used an electronic rev counter while the Dart uses a mechanical one. There are people who will convert the rev counter, and there are people who will fit the 1-2-3 works into a Lucas body, but both are scarily expensive options.

 

[Tranona]

I think it might be the motorcycle background which made Turner's V8 so unbelievably sweet. It went into the SP250 and Majestic Major first, and only went into the Daimler 250 body later, after Jaguar bought Daimler from BSA in 1960.

Small point, but the Majestic Major had a 4.5l V8. Mayor of Poole had one until well into the 1990s.

The 2.5 in the Mk2 body was a big improvement on the anaemic 2.4 Jaguar engine, although most had automatic transmission which blunted performance a bit.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Small point, but the Majestic Major had a 4.5l V8.

True, but basically the same engine.

 

[Tranona]

True, but basically the same engine.

Same basic design but not the same engine. Much bigger all round. Of course dropped by Jaguar as their XK engine was much better suited to bigger cars and of course big Daimlers became XJ6s with crinkly bits on the grille or fancy limo bodies (D400) which then went on for years after the XJ6.

BTW the SP 250 was largely a TR4 underneath.

 

[Lightwave395]

:encouragement:

 

[JumbleDuck]

BTW the SP 250 was largely a TR4 underneath.

TR3, and unofficially. Basically Daimler obtained a TR3 and reverse-engineered it without asking any permission. I expect the IP lawyers would have a field day today. They managed an excellent level of compatibility, though - I believe that people us TR3 gearboxes in Darts to get an overdrive and TR3 back axles fit as well, though that means downgrading from rear discs to drums. I drove the Dart up to Scotland for Kidderminster, which was quite an experience. It's rather low geared, so anything more than 70 is rather painful, but acceleration up to there is very pleasant. The steering is unspeakably dreadful, thanks to the use of a steering box rather than rack-and-pinion. For which they had no excuse, really, since Triumph managed to put a rack in the Herald, which came out in the same year.

By far the worst feature of that particular SP250, though, was that the bonnet catch let go when I was (a) ten miles from the end of a 350 mile journey and (b) doing 60mph. Up it came and broke itself in two over the top of the windscreen. Luckily my pal managed to find a good second-hand one on eBay (outbidding Quentin Willson). When it arrived we had a look at it an discovered that it had been mended from breaking across the middle. Then we looked at the broken one on the car, and found that it had already been repaired once for the same. The car now has an extra clip at the font, and I check the three clips which hold down the DS bonnet with religious fervour ...

 

[Tranona]

Had the same thing with my MK1 Cortina going up the A11. Was only a week after I bought the car from my employer (for £250) and they agreed to pay for a new bonnet and catch which had worn and seized.

We forget how poorly engineered and built those 1950s sports cars were even by the standards of the times. Attractive looks and booming exhaust notes seduced buyers easily.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Had the same thing with my MK1 Cortina going up the A11. Was only a week after I bought the car from my employer (for £250) and they agreed to pay for a new bonnet and catch which had worn and seized.

We forget how poorly engineered and built those 1950s sports cars were even by the standards of the times. Attractive looks and booming exhaust notes seduced buyers easily.

Daimler discovered something which applies to all other small-scale makers of GRP cars and indeed GRP boats: it's very easy and quite cheap to make a body (hull) but takes a lot more time and effort to fit out. Even by those standards, though, the design of the Dart is a disgrace. It was clearly put together by sitting a body on a knock-off TR3 chassis and then wandering round it saying "We need one of these ... and one of these ... and one of these ..." and sticking them on when they could. As I wrote, you have to drop the exhaust system to change the oil filter, for flip's sake. And don't get me started on removing the windscreen. Just don't.

And ... relax.

PS Curious fact about the TR3 body: it was designed to use almost entirely simple curves. Triumph had practically no press availability, but they could roll things.

 

[Tranona]

PS Curious fact about the TR3 body: it was designed to use almost entirely simple curves. Triumph had practically no press availability, but they could roll things.

Same with the Herald. The reason it had a chassis was because they had no equipment to produce a unitary body. Marketing men (wide boy salesmen actually) sold it as a benefit as no other comparable cars had chassis!

More trivia. The MGB wings were made in two parts, top and bottom because of limitation of presses - hence the chrome stripe to hide the join.

My first visit to Canley (Standard Triumph) in 1968 was like going into one of those grainy black and white propaganda films just after the war promoting the postwar industrial revival. Hammers used extensively to make sure all the panels fitted and doors stayed shut long enough to leave the factory. They were gearing up to build the Stag, billed as a competitor to Mercedes.

 

[elton]

Think you might be getting your Cortina Mks mixed up. The first to get a 2.3 was the Mk4 and even then it was not injected. The Mk4 was also the one that looked a bit like a small Mk2 Granada and was launched and sold at around the same time. (1976/77 ish)

I guess you're right, but I always thought the Mk numbers ran in parallel with the Cortina and Granada, because they both seemed to adopt similar overall styling.

Anyway this is my old Mk2 Granada. Bought as a virtual wreck, I welded on 25 square feet of new steel, sprayed it matt black, got an MOT, and wasted thousands on four star . This was a camping trip to Durness, in the far north.