Anyone drive a MK2 Cortina?

[Sans Bateau]

It was the Alfa Sud that first had the dodgy steel, then Lancia (remember the Beta?). All tied up with the sale of the rights to the Fiat 124 which became the Lada.

That quite right, but just about everything as has been discussed, but quite unrationally, the stigma remained with Alfa Romeo.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Yes, amazing how gullible some people were in those days, wedded as they were to a belief that "British was best". BMC did not learn anything as subsequent cars were even worse when compared with the competition, particularly the Japanese cars then entering the market.

We all know how it ended up.

My brother worked for rover at longbridge when the started making cars designed by honda. He said that the Honda guys got them to make better quality cars and they did not understand what crap they were making up till then.

 

[halcyon]

That quite right, but just about everything as has been discussed, but quite unrationally, the stigma remained with Alfa Romeo.

Same steel ended up at BMC via UK Government deal. funny thing the steel did not rust ( BMC at least ), you got a little blister, may be 3mm diameter, you scratched it out before touching up and found this black slag inside a steel foil . So you got the electric sander out, you now got a patch of bright clean steel with holes showing this black slag inside. Next you prodded the site and the slag came out leaving a 50mm hole and some perforated foil to fiberglass.

Brian

 

[Zagato]

That quite right, but just about everything as has been discussed, but quite unrationally, the stigma remained with Alfa Romeo.

Tell that to my friend who sells Alfas, they keep the service dept busy he says compared to the Suburus he also sells. Also knew a window fitter that was forever replacing front windows under warranty as the frames rusted under warranty due to the rubbing... And the front window is meant to be a solid structural part of the car... Let's not even start on Land Rovers... Yikes!

 

[Sans Bateau]

Tell that to my friend who sells Alfas, they keep the service dept busy he says compared to the Suburus he also sells. Also knew a window fitter that was forever replacing front windows under warranty as the frames rusted under warranty due to the rubbing... And the front window is meant to be a solid structural part of the car... Let's not even start on Land Rovers... Yikes!

Your in Chichester, you have a friend who sells Alfa Romeo and Suburu, Mmm, I think that might be someone I know, Mike his name? And a name like Zagato hints at Alfa Romeo ownership yourself, or is it a Lancia? No! Not a An Aston Martin!?

PS of the 4 Alfa Romeos we currently own and all the ones I know through AROC, I cannot think which ones suffer as you say.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Sadly true. The A series engine introduced in the 50's still being fitted to cars in the 80's. A good engine it may have been , but not that good.

The BMC B series engine is still produces today by Nissan.

We have a plant producing a 1500 cc version for use in the Nissan pickup that is produced near Pretoria.

 

[vyv_cox]

Golfs were not immune from tin worm, there were very few cars that were. It was only Alfa Romeo which seemed to get stuck with the stigma though.

Not forgetting the infamous Lancia Beta that corroded so badly that their UK business collapsed, never to return.

My Alfa Sud was a prime example, admittedly bought cheaply, but not very elderly, from a colleague. It had a habit of dropping petrol from the carburettor and on one occasion caught fire. I quickly grabbed the fire extinguisher from inside the car, opened the bonnet and banged the extinguisher on the wing, where it went right through! The car finally failed when the rear axle collapsed due to rust when carrying a couple of bags of coal.

 

[Sans Bateau]

The BMC B series engine is still produces today by Nissan.

We have a plant producing a 1500 cc version for use in the Nissan pickup that is produced near Pretoria.

:surprise:

 

[Sans Bateau]

Not forgetting the infamous Lancia Beta that corroded so badly that their UK business collapsed, never to return.

My Alfa Sud was a prime example, admittedly bought cheaply, but not very elderly, from a colleague. It had a habit of dropping petrol from the carburettor and on one occasion caught fire. I quickly grabbed the fire extinguisher from inside the car, opened the bonnet and banged the extinguisher on the wing, where it went right through! The car finally failed when the rear axle collapsed due to rust when carrying a couple of bags of coal.

It was a very bad period thanks to the Russian crap steel.

 

[ProDave]

This rust thing was not just the steel, it was the protection.

"Underseal" was not standard. You could pay extra for the dealer to paint it underneath if you wanted to. My dad did not when he bought his Anglia van new, and it went to the scrap yard at 10 years old as it had rusted away. Things like the wings had already been patched up years before that.

Later I bought a 1971 MK1 Transit camper van, the owner of that had paid for underseal from new and it was lasting a whole lot better.

 

[rogerthebodger]

This rust thing was not just the steel, it was the protection.

It was also bad design that allowed for mud to collect and retain moisture accelerating rusting.

There was also areas where the paint would crack and allow moisture under the paint also accelerating rusting.

 

[dom]

It was a very bad period thanks to the Russian crap steel.

My dad’s old Nissan 100A was a match the Itis in the rust stakes

 

[Sans Bateau]

It was also bad design that allowed for mud to collect and retain moisture accelerating rusting.

There was also areas where the paint would crack and allow moisture under the paint also accelerating rusting.

No inner wing liners either to keep the muck out.

 

[Zagato]

Your in Chichester, you have a friend who sells Alfa Romeo and Suburu, Mmm, I think that might be someone I know, Mike his name? And a name like Zagato hints at Alfa Romeo ownership yourself, or is it a Lancia? No! Not a An Aston Martin!?

PS of the 4 Alfa Romeos we currently own and all the ones I know through AROC, I cannot think which ones suffer as you say.

Yes Mike . I live 25 miles away from Chi Harbour in the quiet countryside. The ALFA dealership with repeated rotting window frames under warranty was just south of Reigate, may have just been a certain model or model year, I don,t know. I have owned SAAB 96's since I was 13 sadly not an Aston Martin GT Zagato. My father bought a new ALFA Sud in 1979. It went back for 29 items under warranty, lovely engine but just a poor car. Rusting badly after just 4 years, bit like a Defender!! Just poor metal.

A client has just picked up his 65 plate Defender and was shocked when I showed him the corrosion around the window frame, window blocks, rear crossmember, chassis, rear seat footwells, the list goes on.... And on... keeps me in work so let's not be too hard on rust LOL! I am doing more and more brand new vehicles due to the lack of underseal etc. Clear coat epoxy based treatments are very good and you can keep an eye on what is happening underneath. Morgan for instance have used Dinitrol Corroheat which is what I prefer to use. The industry is full of crooks with fancy websites still plastering thick black coats of stuff on hiding what they have not done and just trapping in rotting moisture. These Buzz products mislead people also, they just hide rust and cover it with a very hard coating. It doesn,t stop rust it just hides it...

Always amazes me people will spend £500 on a dealership life guard polish (just a £20 coating of Autoglym which is stripped off when you visit your drive in car wash) but ignore the underside of the car that rusts from new or in LandRovers case has already started rusting during assembly! I do quite a few Discoveries, Range Rovers etc that are only 2-4 years old but pretty rusty in hidden areas. Top tip never use a guy that says they can do it in a day or some guy that just whacks your car up on a ramp and sprays thick Waxoyl on from afar. I keep vehicles for a week to give to time to prepare vehicles, allow drying time which is obviously essential and treat with Dinitrol products after treating the rust in the first place. I work from a workshop at home, only do one vehicle per week to stay motivated and give myself plenty of time at a steady pace and my work comes from recomendations and am always booked a month minimum in advance. Anything from Mk2 Jags, E types, Jimneys, New BMWs, Porche's, Supra's, Kit Cars, mini buses, etc but I won't waste my time and clients money on something too far gone. e.g. I turned away a 2004 Range Rover sport recently, it was too rotten.

As most on here are hands on you can buy kits and have a go yourself, I am always happy to give advice.

 

[doug748]

I guess all this is not really thread drift, maybe just not quite what the OP was driving (sic) at.

However, what do you think of Waxoil Zagato? I suspect it is ok if you can penitrate hidden areas where it can lodge but it does not last well in the open, eg undersides. Is the Corroheat easy to apply?

BTW, I had a SAAB 95, nice car. Seated 7, kids loved the "rear gunner" seats

 

[Zagato]

Waxoyl is just an oil, wax and white spirit mix, it is poor at spreading, becomes cakey, is not vibration proof and slides down vertical surfaces just leaving a trace of white spirit. The only reason it sells well is that the company has the supply network to re stock Halford shelves pretty well immediately as Halfords do not have big storage areas. Dinitrol, Bilt Hamber etc cannot re stock shelves constantly across the UK.

Dinitrol and Bilt Hamber are far better as they are epoxy based wax, bitchumen so last longer, stick to slamming doors for instance and spread much better. Bilt Hamber remains tacky picking up dirt and if using areosols you can never get the last quarter out as the cans are so long. Just the fact the cans are longer also hinders the work when trying to spray in confined places.

Dinitrol is the stuff to use then. I highly recommend it over the others and have some very particular, esteemed clients including Royalty, Defence Minister (not this countries in both cases) and clients come from all over the UK and sometimes France to have their special pride and joys treated. The standard 4941 underbody "wax" dries and gives a smart blackish, matt finish. Dinitrol clear Corroheat is pricey as it was designed for engine detailing but it used wholesale to entirely cover road gritters, plane mobile steps etc. It leaves an opaque finish but does take time to go off, harden! Excellent for show, brand new or very good condition vehicles. Corroheat goes straight on no ML etc.

The procedure for usual Dinitrol 4941 underbody wax is...

"Rub" back rust, you really need to get it to near bare metal as possible.
Treat with Dinitrol RC800 rust convertor (water based like, Fertan, Ku Rust etc) or RC900 aerosol based (better but lethal, do not breathe in even with a professional mask, it is acid based of course).
Spray a light layer of Dinitrol ML Cavity wax on.
Spray on 4941 Underbody wax as your final layer.

For box sections spray in Dinitrol ML Cavity wax using the long 360 degree extension nozzle if required.
For stone chip spray on Dinitrol Protect Super 447 over a light layer of ML Cavity wax.

This can all be bought in kit form for the size of your vehicle or even particular listed vehicles. I don,t think I can link to a supplier but googling will bring one of the two main suppliers up.

The above is for DIY aerosol use. Buy a professional mask about £70 plus filters e.g. moldex

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sadly true. The A series engine introduced in the 50's still being fitted to cars in the 80's. A good engine it may have been , but not that good.

A friend of mine at university had an Allegro estate with the 1300cc A+ engine. The looks were perhaps not everyone's cup of tea. but it was a jolly good car on the whole. Seven of us went to wedding in Leeds in it, cruising up the M1 at a nice constant 90 - 95. Speed cameras and worries about carrying students in the boots of cars came later ...

But if you want long-lasting engines, Citroën couldn't afford to develop the flat six they dreamed of for the DS in 1957, so they hastily tarted up the TA engine from 1934. Then when they needed to replace the DS they were in another round of financial trouble so they tarted up the DS23 engine for the 1974 CX, and that lasted until the Douvrin engine replaced it in 1979. The final engines in the series were fairly different from the first (direction of rotation changed with the CX for a start) but effectively the same general engine was in production from 1934 till 1979.

The Daddy of them all, though, is surely the engine which started off in the Austin 7 in 1922 and only finished production as the Reliant Robin engine in 2001. OK, it had gone from side valve to overhead valve and from cast iron block to aluminium block, but it was very much the same engine with a significant number of parts in common. Can anyone beat 79 years in production?

 

[DownWest]

JD, you deff get the anorak award for detail Some CX models had Renault engines. Engine development was always their achilles heel. The diesel varients had Indenor engines, as did several other mks., like Volvo. Peugeot owned.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JD, you deff get the anorak award for detail Some CX models had Renault engines. Engine development was always their achilles heel. The diesel varients had Indenor engines, as did several other mks., like Volvo. Peugeot owned.

Ay thang yew. The DS would have been an even better car if it had got the engine they wanted. It was to be an air-cooled (I think) flat six in front of the transmission, just like a 2CV but beefier. That's why the car got a sloping down bonnet ... which meant that when they copped out and stuck the DS engine in, it had to sit half in teh passenger compartment, resulting in a huge bulge back under the dashboard. The car really deserved better than a clunky old straight four. Sigh.

They tried to make up for it with Wankel engine development in the 70s, but unfortunately a combination of tip seal issues and the oil crises revealed that they had bet the farm on a dud horse. Result: bankruptcy and the Peugeot takeover. I've seen and heard a GS Birotor, and very nice it is too. If only ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

"Rub" back rust, you really need to get it to near bare metal as possible.
Treat with Dinitrol RC800 rust convertor (water based like, Fertan, Ku Rust etc) or RC900 aerosol based (better but lethal, do not breathe in even with a professional mask, it is acid based of course).
Spray a light layer of Dinitrol ML Cavity wax on.
Spray on 4941 Underbody wax as your final layer.

This is very useful to me - thanks. The underneath of my Herald's body is wholly and only in primer, so I need to get something on it before I start using the car again. Would you recommend that system for wheelarches - ie will it stand up to stones and other stuff coming off the wheels?