Anyone drive a MK2 Cortina?

[elton]

Thames Valley Police used to have an unmarked white Capri 2.8i with which they would go out hunting boy racers.

The 2.8i Capri was undoubtedly quick, but handling was sadly lacking. There's an ancient oak tree just outside town, which still bears the scars of impact from a 2.8i, which slid off the road on a bend twenty years ago, and was destroyed, killing the two occupants instantly. It was allegedly racing an Escort Mexico, which was never identified.

 

[halcyon]

Yes, amazing how gullible some people were in those days, wedded as they were to a belief that "British was best". BMC did not learn anything as subsequent cars were even worse when compared with the competition, particularly the Japanese cars then entering the market.

We all know how it ended up.

Think that should be the other way round, in the 1960 BMC paint spec is similar to current, bar the lacquer coats were not there, even RO chassis were primed with electrostatic phosphate coat x 2 before top coating.

A lot of negative marketing from Europe, how did the Japs go from 300cc air cooled to state of the art over night ? I even went to look at buying a early Jap car, could not even get in it, they were rubbish till the Honda aerodeck came in.

Read Wiki for BMC research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressed_Steel_Company#Research_and_Development

Brian

 

[Sans Bateau]

The 2CV was almost unbeatable on twisty country roads, because although it didn't go particularly fast (top speed about 85mph) they cling to the road so tight that you basically never need to slow down. Using the brakes is seen as a bit of a faux pas in 2CV-owning circles. Golly, I'd like to get another one.

Saw a 2CV at the Shere hill climb in the summer, similar but not the one in the youtube clip, thats at Shelsley Walsh, but hell it was entertaining!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1E3uVNbAas

 

[Tranona]

Think that should be the other way round, in the 1960 BMC paint spec is similar to current, bar the lacquer coats were not there, even RO chassis were primed with electrostatic phosphate coat x 2 before top coating.

A lot of negative marketing from Europe, how did the Japs go from 300cc air cooled to state of the art over night ? I even went to look at buying a early Jap car, could not even get in it, they were rubbish till the Honda aerodeck came in.

Read Wiki for BMC research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressed_Steel_Company#Research_and_Development

Brian

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Does not matter what the paint was or whether there were individual elements of BMC that were good - the cars were still rubbish. Great ideas poorly executed for all sorts or reasons - lack of investment, internal politics antiquated production systems, unreliable workforce, lack of management etc. What might have been acceptable in the early 60s when there was no real competition changed as everybody else improved and BMC went backwards. More important consumers expectations changed as they were offered different choices and voted with their money.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Does not matter what the paint was or whether there were individual elements of BMC that were good - the cars were still rubbish. Great ideas poorly executed for all sorts or reasons - lack of investment, internal politics antiquated production systems, unreliable workforce, lack of management etc. What might have been acceptable in the early 60s when there was no real competition changed as everybody else improved and BMC went backwards. More important consumers expectations changed as they were offered different choices and voted with their money.

Sadly true. The A series engine introduced in the 50's still being fitted to cars in the 80's. A good engine it may have been , but not that good.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, amazing how gullible some people were in those days, wedded as they were to a belief that "British was best".

The delusion extended well beyond the British motor industry ...

 

[NorthUp]

Early eighties a pal had an old Mk2 Cortina with a 3 litre V6 squeezed under the bonnet. Bloody fast in a straight line but I wonder how we kept a driving licence after spectating on the Scottish Rally, dodged several speed traps on the old A9!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Does not matter what the paint was or whether there were individual elements of BMC that were good - the cars were still rubbish.

The paint was pretty rubbish too, but of course habits like leaving unpainted bodysheels out in the open overnight - or over the weekend - at Cowley didn't help. When I bought my Herald in 1985 she was 16 years old and had rust everywhere. When I scrapped my Golf estate last year it was twenty years old and had one small (6mm) patch of rust in the middle of the driver's door.

Mind you, if you had shelled out an extra £1,000 to buy a DS convertible in the sixties or seventies you would have found out - rapidly - that Chapron gave them no rust protection whatsoever. The insides of the wings, door and so on were bare, unpainted steel. They lasted OK in California and the South of France, but generally had terminal penetrative rust within a year if used in rain.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Early eighties a pal had an old Mk2 Cortina with a 3 litre V6 squeezed under the bonnet. Bloody fast in a straight line but I wonder how we kept a driving licence after spectating on the Scottish Rally, dodged several speed traps on the old A9!

I friend of mine had a Rover V8 in a Daf 55 body, which he used to hunt Spitfires and MGBs.

 

[Tranona]

The delusion extended well beyond the British motor industry ...

Yes, they were products of their times. Just like Brian's reference to BMC's superior paint I could refer to the ground breaking research Seagull carried out with Queens into 2 stroke combustion but the product offered to the customer was inferior to the competition.

Just like BMC it was OK when the competition was such horrors as the Sea Bee, Atco and of course the Johnson/Evinrude 2&4hp.

It all changed in 1978/9 - just as I started with Seagull. I remember standing at the boat show in 1979 with all these nice new Yamahas, Suzukis and Mariners etc on the stands close by and prices literally falling daily eroding our previous 40% price advantage. I knew that was it but was not smart enough to start looking elsewhere having committed to the move to Poole. Still, for me it all worked out in the end.

 

[TQA]

The 2CV was almost unbeatable on twisty country roads, because although it didn't go particularly fast (top speed about 85mph) .

85 mph ? You must have found one with a vary optimistic speedo. The factory claimed 68 mph. Not many could reach that and any kind of head wind would see them struggle to break 60.

Mind you if you want to carry a tray of eggs plus 4 people all wearing hats across a ploughed field the 2 CV will outperform other small cars.

 

[Graham376]

When I bought my Herald in 1985 she was 16 years old and had rust everywhere.

Lucky you didn't buy a Vauxhall Victor, they rusted away in about 5 years, or a Ford 100e which often had the suspension legs rot through the inner wings.

 

[Sans Bateau]

The paint was pretty rubbish too, but of course habits like leaving unpainted bodysheels out in the open overnight - or over the weekend - at Cowley didn't help. When I bought my Herald in 1985 she was 16 years old and had rust everywhere. When I scrapped my Golf estate last year it was twenty years old and had one small (6mm) patch of rust in the middle of the driver's door.
.

Golfs were not immune from tin worm, there were very few cars that were. It was only Alfa Romeo which seemed to get stuck with the stigma though.

There was a Mk1 GTI they rescued on car SOS which had barely enough metal left to call it a car.

A good deal on my garage income in the 70's and early 80's was welding up cars for MOT, no MIG, just gas welding.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It all changed in 1978/9 - just as I started with Seagull.

I'm sorry - I should have made it clear that it wasn't a personal dig at you, just a good example from marine industry. "The best outboard motor for the world" was probably true in the fifties, at least arguable in the sixties and not remotely tenable by the late seventies, yet they clung on to a product line which, despite its clear merits, was 20+ years out of date. See also: the British motorbike industry and its fundamental belief that dripping oil was good for the soul.

 

[Tranona]

I'm sorry - I should have made it clear that it wasn't a personal dig at you, just a good example from marine industry. "The best outboard motor for the world" was probably true in the fifties, at least arguable in the sixties and not remotely tenable by the late seventies, yet they clung on to a product line which, despite its clear merits, was 20+ years out of date. See also: the British motorbike industry and its fundamental belief that dripping oil was good for the soul.

Did not take it personally at all. Just agreeing with you by adding the timeline. My 3 years in the turmoil was the foundations for my later career. Nothing better for learning than being at the centre of a seismic change in an industry.

Exactly the same in the boat building industry at around the same period and over the following 10 years. I can hear it now, not only because I have a good memory but because, particularly on these fora, it is still a mantra for some.

"Nobody is going to buy those cheap lightweight French boats which will fall apart in no time"

Well, we all know what happened.

 

[Zagato]

you have to remember that its competitors at the time were wonderful things like Hillman Minxes, Vauxhall Victors, Austin Cambridges etc, most of which were based on early 1950s design.

The Cortina was a revelation. All syncro 4 speed boxes, airflow ventilation (from 65), huge boots plenty of room inside etc. OK they were light but they rusted better than the others. Other new designs like the 11/1300 might have been clever but they were badly engineered and even more badly put together.

I worked for Ford in that era from leaving school until 1968 when I changed to a major component supplier. I could not believe how awful the manufacturing facilities were in for example Rootes and Standard Triumph, never mind BMC. The only one that got anywhere near Ford was Vauxhall, but the cars were rubbish in comparison. .

I am used to SAAB of that era, over engineered, tough, monocoque BUT it,s not a fair comparison with weaker two stroke engines and of course they didn,t ever really make a long term profit. Great cars in my mind as an engineered product (they did so much more with the Ford Taunus v4 engine) but not a commercially successful product in reality. It cost too much to make. SAAB were losing money from the 99 on. Volvo compromised on design for economy and became far bigger and more successful...

 

[JumbleDuck]

85 mph ? You must have found one with a vary optimistic speedo. The factory claimed 68 mph. Not many could reach that and any kind of head wind would see them struggle to break 60.

You are quite right. Typo for 75mph. You get a few extra mph out of an old, rattly one.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Golfs were not immune from tin worm, there were very few cars that were. It was only Alfa Romeo which seemed to get stuck with the stigma though.

Mine was Mk 3 Golf, by which time the Germans seem to have cracked rust. We scrapped my other half's V-reg Polo over the summer, and there wasn't a significant speck of rust on it.

As I recall, the Alfa reputation came about when Italy took a load of dodgy steel from the USSR in exchange for something Italian the Kremlin wanted, then hastily palmed it off on the car industry.

 

[Tranona]

As I recall, the Alfa reputation came about when Italy took a load of dodgy steel from the USSR in exchange for something Italian the Kremlin wanted, then hastily palmed it off on the car industry.

It was the Alfa Sud that first had the dodgy steel, then Lancia (remember the Beta?). All tied up with the sale of the rights to the Fiat 124 which became the Lada.

 

[RichardS]

Lucky you didn't buy a Vauxhall Victor, they rusted away in about 5 years, or a Ford 100e which often had the suspension legs rot through the inner wings.

How dare you Sir.

I had a Victor FC 1600, then an FD 2000, then an FE 2300 and finally a Carlton 2000 before I ended my love affair with Vauxhall.

Rust was only ever a problem if you went looking for it. :ambivalence:

Having said that, I did fill the sills on the FE2300 with old engine oil and they didn't rust ... although there were no wheel arch liners so the wings were a bit crumbly.

Richard