Anybody else not, qualified?

[winch2]

Thread deleted.

 

[LittleSister]

. . . if past form is anything to go by those of us who lack the bit of paper are deemed not to know one tack from another.

I think you\re imagining that. I can't recall ever seeing that suggested.

 

[rogerthebodger]

If there is a safety to others required, it's easy to understand why for form of paper /experience/knowledge id required.

Where there is some form of commensal operation on the sea, the required and the safety of those paying a fee to use that service and in road transport and bus drivers who carry people as a professional driver.

If for pleasure vessel operated by a private interval for their own pleasure the boat owners are responsible for their safety and having a qualification does not make it any safer.

I have a costal skipper ticket that allows me to sail up to 40 nm offshore night or day whereas my previous day skipper only allowed me to ail during the Day and where I sail would not allow me to sail from my home port to the next port along the coast.

It me its more about control than safety as even with my papers I could still sail in an unsafe way and if I don't get found out no one would really know. It not the offence it getting found out

 

[dune16]

I did plan to do my day skipper when I got my first boat back in 2019 but just never found the time. A couple of years later we wanted to charter a boat in Croatia.... I needed a licence to do this. I felt pretty confident by this time in my skills that I'd learnt with my well qualified friend (Dave) teaching me. I therefore went for the ICC assessment and passed no issues and this seems to be accepted all over the med. So that and my VHF licence are the only bits of paper I have and have no plans to do any more.

 

[Boathook]

I've got the ICC when it first came out. No test involved back then, just a signature from a suitable person or existing yachtmaster. Been boating all my life, so some things like the OP's just seem commonsense.

Doing the RYA first aid course tomorrow. More as a refresher, as I did quite a few at work over the years including a 5 day one. Hopefully I might learn something new or at least refresh the brain cells on how to panic in an controlled manner.

 

[winch2]

I think you\re imagining that. I can't recall ever seeing that suggested.

Ha, no I meant in company, you know after a wee dramm or two...Just this nagging sense in the air....Im the one in the room devoid of the big tick! But lets be honest everything today has to be formalised, which I dont always subscribe to. And yes Im going to say it, back ..'in the day' you got a boat, maybe some old salt on the beach gave you a heads up, you learnt by trial and error and just got on with it.... I guess nowdays with so many huge boats afloat, for some, formal accountability is an important status to have.

 

[Bouba]

Met my other half on one of those sites a while back and in her profile said she liked sailing so I thgt brilliant shes the gal for me....haha. Anyway we go out in her dinghy, started chatting and I discover she's got Day Skipper. Ok I thght how bout we talk about something else the reason being I dont have any formal sailing Quals and have no intention of aquiring any and if past form is anything to go by those of us who lack the bit of paper are deemed not to know one tack from another.

She only got into sailing a couple years ago and Ive been yanking on ropes and sniffing varnish etc since I was about 4 years old so yes the subject of accountability eventually came up which I think is an interesting one.

I have my own boat so dont need to wory about borrowing a vessel with all the accompanying paperwork that needs to be cleared etc and as Ive said Ive sailed on and off practically all my life.
It's quite interesting when we're at sea. I was never a navigator, but Im pretty good at boat handling. She on the other hand is a mathmetician/scientist so is naturally, Navigator numero uno. Her assessment that "we will have 20cm of water under the keel in 50 meters time", one afternoon was extremely impressive to a number dummy like me.

But its the general seamanship part of it all that interests me. She has the DS qualification and I have nout, yet I tend to find when we're at sea that it's me dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's with regard to weather, sea state, drift, traffic, boat handling etc etc etc. In fact we've had some slightly concerning moments when she simply hasn't been aware of a developing situ whilst Im down below messing about, or, she will suggest a course of action that I would deem a poor example of seamanship..

Just thought it an interesting topic in these days where everyones actions supposedly have to be accounted for. Makes you wonder how long it will be until we all have to be "qualified" to launch the dinghy into the mire.

Women are different….men will try something new…women will take a course first. But being proud of lack of qualifications is not a virtue. A bit like that yachtsman in the movie Perfect Storm….

 

[capnsensible]

Ha, no I meant in company, you know after a wee dramm or two...Just this nagging sense in the air....Im the one in the room devoid of the big tick! But lets be honest everything today has to be formalised, which I dont always subscribe to. And yes Im going to say it, back ..'in the day' you got a boat, maybe some old salt on the beach gave you a heads up, you learnt by trial and error and just got on with it.... I guess nowdays with so many huge boats afloat, for some, formal accountability is an important status to have.

Yeah, most people these days want to learn how to do things properly. Sailing, driving, liver transplants, yadda yadda.

 

[DreadShips]

I'm only about to do my DS practical, but nothing will beat experience. What doing a course does offer though is a thorough sample of things you might not always get experience in otherwise, a bit of coaching, and a framework in which to place everything else you subsequently learn on a boat. At least that's what I'm hoping!

It certainly won't produce the finished article - you need plenty of "developing situations" under your belt to learn from, and let's be honest - you probably had a few of those during your sailing career too. And there's a reason the RYA qualifications require equivalent knowledge/experience to the previous level and not the actual certificate...

Putting aside your nagging feeling, if she's got the nav skills and you've got the seamanship then both of you will be sailing better for the combination. Sounds ideal to me!

 

[winch2]

Think I'll sign off from the thread. I was just curious thats all. As you were.

 

[Wansworth]

My mother was trained in knowing that the other place was a better anchorage and those people over there know where they are going…..

 

[crewman]

Went sailing a bit ago with a newly qualified DS. Was shocked at how poor tghe boat handling skills were. Gybing without controlling the main, tacking without warning crew to give them time to prepare. Apparently this is hardly assessed now in the DS course. Lack of practical experience in my opinion. Eventually I hd to take over skippering for our own and the boats safety.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Went sailing a bit ago with a newly qualified DS. Was shocked at how poor tghe boat handling skills were. Gybing without controlling the main, tacking without warning crew to give them time to prepare. Apparently this is hardly assessed now in the DS course. Lack of practical experience in my opinion. Eventually I hd to take over skippering for our own and the boats safety.

So one day skipper passed and you found them to be lacking and then you damn the whole scheme?

 

[Bouba]

Qualifications are not a substitute for experience….and while, sometimes, experience can be a substitute for qualifications….ideally both are necessary

 

[Wansworth]

In my youth I taught sailing at Bosham Sea School although I did impress on the adult customers it was just a start if I recall correctly one couple expected to be sort of fully trained at the end of a week.

 

[Gustywinds]

Did my powerboat course earlier this year , CEVNI and ICC. Only time I was asked for the CEVNI was when I bought the boat. Learned a lot since then but it was still quite eye-opening joining the Seine this morning!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

So one day skipper passed and you found them to be lacking and then you damn the whole scheme?

I don't see that as condemning the scheme, maybe pointing out a weakness. And a lack of practical experience doesn't stop someone from passing their day skipper necessarily.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Qualifications are not a substitute for experience….and while, sometimes, experience can be a substitute for qualifications….ideally both are necessary

That goes for everything not just sailing or helming a boat

 

[capnsensible]

I don't see that as condemning the scheme, maybe pointing out a weakness. And a lack of practical experience doesn't stop someone from passing their day skipper necessarily.

The problem is that suggesting tacking and gybeing safely is not 'assessed' in a Day Skipper course. That's just plain wrong. These maneuvers are coached extensively on every course.,

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The problem is that suggesting tacking and gybeing safely is not 'assessed' in a Day Skipper course. That's just plain wrong. These maneuvers are coached extensively on every course.,

I don’t recall it being a factor, or even discussed at all on my course/exam, maybe I’ll take that as a compliment. I got into cruisers on the back of being a long standing dinghy sailor though. You should also bear in mind that there are sailing schools with far less experienced staff than you and John, a couple of old shellbacks.