Any tips on applying foam backed wall coverings?

[CMJ]

Hi – Happy New Year to you all!

I’m currently in the process of removing the old foam-backed internal wall coverings from the boat where they’ve become unstuck in places after 10 years. This I understand is due to a particular eco-adhesive Azimut were using at the time (circa 2006) that lets go after about 10 years. This has resulted in bubbles (say apple/melon size) appearing in the wall coverings all over. The wall covering is ‘Majilite Novasuede’ with a 3mm open cell foam backing and reading the install guide for this, it details that the material contracts and expands significantly with humidity changes (which explains how I could get the bubbles to magically disappear with the dehumidifier switched on). The install guide says apply in high humidity so that the material can only contract and tighten rather than expand further and cause potential bubbles again.

I’ve already done the required dismantling of the boat interior to allow me to remove or part remove the covering – this is the most time-consuming bit…and I’m ready to either re-apply the old wall covering where it’s still in good condition or replace where it’s been marked over the years. The foam backing BTW has not disintegrated and is still in good shape.

Anyway, my question is:

Are there any insider tips and tricks as to the installing of foam backed materials like this?

The boat builders obviously do this flawlessly every day. The install manual for the material just says use a suitable adhesive and apply firm pressure. The problem is when you apply firm pressure, it squashes the foam that has a light covering of contact adhesive on it leaving it permanently dented in places due to the glue sticking the foam together (not sure why they use open cell foam rather than closed as this would solve that problem I’m sure……must be a reason for it though).

I’m guessing that the boat builders apply contact adhesive on both sides (spray-type on the foam backed wall covering and either spray or liquid on the GRP/ Plywood wall) and then just very lightly apply the foam backed material, perhaps smoothing it with a window squeegee or soft painter’s roller or something. I’ve done a couple of tests though and this light approach results in a weaker bond…….so I’m scratching my head as I definitely want to get this right first time due to the amount of dismantling and re-assembling that goes into all of this!

So, any tips and tricks really appreciated! Also any thoughts on contact adhesive brands/types? I’m thinking a 17kg canister type setup with hose and spray gun rather than aerosols…..just need to work out which type because there are loads to choose from!

Cheers,
Chris.

 

[superheat6k]

I was advised to use an adhesive of at least 50 degrees rating, otherwise the glue can let go on a warm day.

If the foam has failed but the material itself is OK then it might be possible to replace the foam. I re-attached some failed wall linings very successfully using laminate floor 2mm foam underlay (B&Q or Wickes). I used spray adhesive to mount the foam, which can be cut to suit the shapes required, let this go off for about an hour then re-affixed the top surface with another spray of adhesive to the foam surface. The underlay foam is quite firm and doesn't take permanent marks when handled. It can also hide quite a lot of surface imperfections, such as old glue / foam traces.

 

[petem]

I was told to ask the supplier for a scrim backed foam to stop the glue soaking into the foam. Also allows for some repositioning before it sets.

 

[VicS]

Hi – Happy New Year to you all!

I’m currently in the process .................................................................

So, any tips and tricks really appreciated! Also any thoughts on contact adhesive brands/types? I’m thinking a 17kg canister type setup with hose and spray gun rather than aerosols…..just need to work out which type because there are loads to choose from!

Cheers,
Chris.

You might find some useful advice in these guides rom Hawke House, who supply the materials.

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/HeadlingFixingGuide0114.pdf

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/how-to-select-the-correct-adhesive.

All I'll emphasise is that the fumes from solvent based contact adhesives can be deadly. Be sure to ventilate the boat well AND use the appropriate mask ( available from HH)

 

[sogood]

I've found that a good heavy duty contact spray adhesive works well. It helps to spray both surfaces lightly and let it dry off, then spray again for fixing. This first light spray helps to seal, or prime the surfaces somewhat, and the second spray reactivates it somewhat. It's useful to dry fit your fabric first, and mark some reference points on the surface and on the fabric, with these reference points lined up. You can use masking tape if you want to avoid actually marking anything. Just mark the tape where applicable and remove it when it's finished with.

Then you can position your fabric lining, safe in the knowledge that it's in the right place, without having to pull it off to realign it. This can be a messy procedure, and you lose adhesion in the process.

I find that starting at the bottom and spraying onto the fabric and surface, in relative small areas at a time, and working upwards is the best way to go. This way, the fabric is hanging down, with the inside (glue) side showing. This protects the outer surface from overspray.

If you're using a vinyl type material, it can mark and show indentations, as opposed to a fabric material. These marks usually come back out as the lining expands and contracts. Personally I think a fabric is better, more pliable, easier to work, and is less prone to contributing to condensation. I posted a link on waynes Buckingham restoration, to a refurb I did, including re-lining my boat. It might be of use to take a look see. I relined a 16' Microplus, using a carpet material and then a 25' Wellcraft, using a lighter fabric material.

 

[CMJ]

I was told to ask the supplier for a scrim backed foam to stop the glue soaking into the foam. Also allows for some repositioning before it sets.

Thanks petem - interesting as I'd never heard of 'scrim' until a couple of days ago, but makes total sense. My wall coverings (existing and what I've got new on a roll) don't have this although the material info sheet says it has 'foam/tricot'. Looking at it though it looks like normal foam on the back to me so a little confused...

 

[CMJ]

You might find some useful advice in these guides rom Hawke House, who supply the materials.

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/HeadlingFixingGuide0114.pdf

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/how-to-select-the-correct-adhesive.

All I'll emphasise is that the fumes from solvent based contact adhesives can be deadly. Be sure to ventilate the boat well AND use the appropriate mask ( available from HH)

Hi VicS - thanks for the info. I've previously bought the Hawkehouse adhesive and used this on my first attempt last year on one wall although bubbles re-appeared which is why I think I might get better spray coverage with a canister - also the uneven pressure I obviously applied to that one wall left it looking very slighted 'dented' in places due to the problem of the foam sticking together. I've now removed and binned the existing wall covering on that wall and sanded it down, ready for an attempt with brand new material.

Also thanks for the safety info.

 

[CMJ]

I've found that a good heavy duty contact spray adhesive works well. It helps to spray both surfaces lightly and let it dry off, then spray again for fixing. This first light spray helps to seal, or prime the surfaces somewhat, and the second spray reactivates it somewhat. It's useful to dry fit your fabric first, and mark some reference points on the surface and on the fabric, with these reference points lined up. You can use masking tape if you want to avoid actually marking anything. Just mark the tape where applicable and remove it when it's finished with.

Then you can position your fabric lining, safe in the knowledge that it's in the right place, without having to pull it off to realign it. This can be a messy procedure, and you lose adhesion in the process.

I find that starting at the bottom and spraying onto the fabric and surface, in relative small areas at a time, and working upwards is the best way to go. This way, the fabric is hanging down, with the inside (glue) side showing. This protects the outer surface from overspray.

If you're using a vinyl type material, it can mark and show indentations, as opposed to a fabric material. These marks usually come back out as the lining expands and contracts. Personally I think a fabric is better, more pliable, easier to work, and is less prone to contributing to condensation. I posted a link on waynes Buckingham restoration, to a refurb I did, including re-lining my boat. It might be of use to take a look see. I relined a 16' Microplus, using a carpet material and then a 25' Wellcraft, using a lighter fabric material.

Thanks sogood! The material type is said to be a synthetic material with the qualities of leather (with a 3mm foam backing). Interesting point ref spraying twice on both material and wall and I'll consider that further - also with using markers/masking to help with alignment.

My biggest challenge still is to work out / find out how to actually apply it to the wall whilst doing so with enough pressure for a good bond, but not so much that it compresses the foam in places and causes the 'dents' (I'm sure there's a better word!). cheers.

 

[sogood]

It might sound daft, but if you wear "thick" woollen gloves while spreading the fabric, it can greatly minimise the "denting" effect. With a good contact adhesive, it doesn't have to be pressed home so hard. As the name suggest, when the two glued surfaces come in contact, they stick together. Another thing I did to get over rougher uneven surfaces, was to cover these areas first using a more rigid foam material. The material in question was just some cheap camp bed/ sleeping bag foam liners. They are available in any camping/outdoors store and are usually about 18"x 66" and about 1/8" thick (approx.)

It sticks really well to fibreglass etc. using the same adhesive and the foam backing on your fabric sticks equally well to it. It also gives an added layer of padding and helps to reduce "denting" too.

 

[Roland Voller]

We supply a professional grade with a scrim foam backed vinyl which has a mesh backing too, this provides better adhesion than products without this, sadly it is a bit more expensive than products without this backing but it does provide a longer life, it's the same product which we use professionally.

Full details here: https://shop.trimnet.co.uk/collections/n-lining-fabrics

In terms of applying, you will need to ensure that the surface is clean and dry, and also the inside of the boat is warm enough. We use heat resistant contact adhesives which work really well. Unfortunately we can't sell these via our webshop due to shipping restrictions although you can collect via our showroom in chatham, kent.

If you need any further help please do not hesitate to contact our team: 01634 244 844, sales@trimnet.co.uk.

 

[benjenbav]

I would apply it with a bank card. As in, pay someone else to do it. On the grounds that they'd do a better job and, if anyone is going to get poisoned in rainforest conditions, AOTBE I'd rather it wasn't me.

 

[CMJ]

I would apply it with a bank card. As in, pay someone else to do it. On the grounds that they'd do a better job and, if anyone is going to get poisoned in rainforest conditions, AOTBE I'd rather it wasn't me.

Probably good advice..... but I can't help myself and generally want to fix stuff myself

 

[jrudge]

I am having my Squadron 58 done at the moment.

To give you some idea each cabin is about 4 days work.

Aersol adhesive tends to fail as it does not actually put on much glue.

The preferred way is rule applied by compressed air using a glue gun - so all you get is glue and not propellant.

 

[CMJ]

Hi - thanks everyone for the replies.

I've done further research etc since I first posted this and have since bought a canister of contact adhesive...plus a spray gun (and mask!). I've also conducted a few trials with different techniques with regards to the adhesive applying and the way in which I then apply the material.

One thing that threw me off-course is that initially I practiced on an old piece of wall covering that I'd removed and when applying firm and even pressure to my test piece it would remain flat like a pancake. I initially blamed the adhesive saturating the foam to be the cause.....but then realised that the old foam (even without any glue) would behave the same and flattened totally and permanently with a little bit of pressure!

I've got a few more trials to do with the new matching wall covering I have (that has foam that bounces-back perfectly)......thoughts are (but to be confirmed) is that I'll spray the wall fairly heavily with maybe 2 coats and the wall covering with 1 coat (with 100% coverage), then allow it to dry-off probably double the time recommended on the canister (as per the suppliers advice) then apply the wall covering with a soft painters roller (as per Hawke House advice on their install instructions).

If all goes well I'll post a few pics up in the coming weeks - but if you hear nothing assume it went really badly.

Anyway...all boring stuff unless you've turned into a wall repair geek like me!

 

[CMJ]

I am having my Squadron 58 done at the moment.

To give you some idea each cabin is about 4 days work.

Aersol adhesive tends to fail as it does not actually put on much glue.

The preferred way is rule applied by compressed air using a glue gun - so all you get is glue and not propellant.

Interesting and good to hear, as the canister of glue I have just bought is an 'airless spray adhesive delivery system with minimal overspray'

Ref the 4 days per cabin - I can imagine that as I've spent about 2 days just doing the dismantling in the hallway to get the to the wall coverings. Most of the time I imagine is the disassembly and assembly and the prepping of the existing walls. Luckily for me, it's only the hallway that needs attention at the moment.

 

[petem]

I am having my Squadron 58 done at the moment.

To give you some idea each cabin is about 4 days work.

Aersol adhesive tends to fail as it does not actually put on much glue.

The preferred way is rule applied by compressed air using a glue gun - so all you get is glue and not propellant.

Who's doing it for you J? Reason I ask is that Ed Engel says he's quite happy to do work abroad.