Any Horologists here?

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Looking to try and Identify the mechanism of an old (probably antique) clock that I was given 25yrs ago and managed to get working again.
Unfortunatly I dont have its case/cabinit but do have the hands and winding handle.
Pics available if anyone interested.
Thanks.
C_W

 

[Aja]

Next time you go to Rothesay - make sure it is a weekday and take the bits to Michael Swift opposite the fish and chip shop. Either he or his son will see you right.

Donald

 

[KAL]

Post the pics and let's have a look...

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Thanks Donald for the info, I will take it with me next time I go there.
Posting some pics for you Kal. Thanks.
C_W

ps, I have been looking at clocks on a few sites and judging by the style of the mechanism I would reckon its somewhere between 1850 and 1920.
I reckon it must be a free standing (bracket)clock as it has to be wound from the back and the back has a small 1 hour dial.
It is working real good but does need a good clean.

 

[colind3782]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhalder_&_Hofmeier_(clocks)

 

[Norman_E]

The last reply is correct. It would originally have had a fairly ornate case, though the case could well have been made by someone other than the clock maker, because some makers sold the "works" to case makers or to large retailers who provided their own cases. It is clearly the works of a high quality bracket clock. The fusee chain mechanism was applied to the best 19th century spring driven clocks, so that the spring applied roughly equal force to drive the going train as it ran down. Once correctly adjusted it should be a reasonably good timekeeper if kept in a modern house at a fairly constant temperature. You did the right thing in not attempting to polish the plates. Clocks have been spoiled by over enthusiastic polishing.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Thanks for the advice and leads guys.
Got a lot of information from your and other links, but still have to find a pic of this actual clock which will probably be distinct because of its hands which I have not seen yet after looking at hundreds of pics.
I intend to, some day build a reeplica case/cabinet for it if I can find out what it looked like.
Also learned some new words like "Fusee" would I be correct in assuming it sounds/pronounced like "Fuse eee" ? or "Fussy"?
Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks.
C_W

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Thanks for the advice and leads guys.
Got a lot of information from your and other links, but still have to find a pic of this actual clock which will probably be distinct because of its hands which I have not seen yet after looking at hundreds of pics.
I intend to, some day build a reeplica case/cabinet for it if I can find out what it looked like.
Also learned some new words like "Fusee" would I be correct in assuming it sounds/pronounced like "Fuse eee" ? or "Fussy"?
Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks.
C_W

It could have looked like anything that was fashionable during the lengthy period these movements were produced in. And as others have said, the maker of the movement would have supplied "bare" movements which local "clockmakers" would have put in their own case (much like the clocks you see at craft markets these days!). So, if I were you, I'd find a design of case you like that is roughly in period, and go for it. No-one could say you were wrong!

Concerning the movement itself, I presume you've cleaned it thoroughly to get it going; usually that's all that is wrong with non working old movements. However, the main thing is NOT to use too much lubricant - the usual advice is to a) use clock oil, NOT other grades of oil, and b) apply the merest trace to the bearings on the end of a pin. Clock oil because it is low in volatiles and doesn't eventually dry to varnish, and the merest trace to avoid trapping dust and increasing the wear on the mechanism. The bearings of these clock aren't bushed; the steel spindles run in holes in the brass front and back plates. This lasts very well as long as wear is avoided by cleaning and correct lubrication, as the brass work-hardens with use. But excessive abrasion breaks through the work-hardening, and the holes become out of shape, and that's the point where repair becomes expensive and difficult, involving drilling out the holes and inserting a bush.

No, I'm not a practising horologist, but I've been fascinated by clocks for most of my life - I resurrected a clock of my Mum and Dad's when I was in my teens!

 

[Poignard]

It is not a bracket clock movement; bracket clocks are not wound from the back. The fact that it is wound from the back, and has a miniature dial on the backplate for hand setting shows it to be the movement from a gallery clock.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

It could have looked like anything that was fashionable during the lengthy period these movements were produced in. And as others have said, the maker of the movement would have supplied "bare" movements which local "clockmakers" would have put in their own case (much like the clocks you see at craft markets these days!). So, if I were you, I'd find a design of case you like that is roughly in period, and go for it. No-one could say you were wrong!

Concerning the movement itself, I presume you've cleaned it thoroughly to get it going; usually that's all that is wrong with non working old movements. However, the main thing is NOT to use too much lubricant - the usual advice is to a) use clock oil, NOT other grades of oil, and b) apply the merest trace to the bearings on the end of a pin. Clock oil because it is low in volatiles and doesn't eventually dry to varnish, and the merest trace to avoid trapping dust and increasing the wear on the mechanism. The bearings of these clock aren't bushed; the steel spindles run in holes in the brass front and back plates. This lasts very well as long as wear is avoided by cleaning and correct lubrication, as the brass work-hardens with use. But excessive abrasion breaks through the work-hardening, and the holes become out of shape, and that's the point where repair becomes expensive and difficult, involving drilling out the holes and inserting a bush.

No, I'm not a practising horologist, but I've been fascinated by clocks
uuuufor most of my life - I resurrected a clock of my Mum and Dad's when I was in my teens!

Some good advice Paul.
I had to make a new pendulam spring hanger which the pendulam hangs on tge saddle. This I made from a strip cut from a feeler guage blade which I have always found a great source of shim materiel, I then had to drill both ends and fit a pin to the top end and revit in to the pendilum.
I do think Winterhalder & Hoffmeier would have made the case in their works which employed 800 employees, but I will find out in due course. I would prefer if the case could even resemble the original.
C_W

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

It is not a bracket clock movement; bracket clocks are not wound from the back. The fact that it is wound from the back, and has a miniature dial on the backplate for hand setting shows it to be the movement from a gallery clock.

I would be inclined to agree with you on this, as i had reckoned mocing the clock every time it needed wound (8days) would nor be good for the pendilum. I am almost certain this clock has plannet gears inside the fusee so it can still run while been wound, i will be able to confirm if this the case when i wind it on sunday.
Thanks for your input.
C_W

 

[earlybird]

A word of warning. A pendulum clock will not keep good time on Hummingbird, as John Harrison would have told you!

 

[Poignard]

I would be inclined to agree with you on this, as i had reckoned mocing the clock every time it needed wound (8days) would nor be good for the pendilum.

The reason a gallery clock is wound from the back is because it is not accessible from the front. Imagine, for example, something like a concert hall, where the clock would be mounted high up on the front of the 'minstrel gallery' so that everyone could see it. It would be very inconvenient to have to get a long ladder out every week in order to wind it. Instead access from the back is provided.

There never would have been a 'case' in the conventional sense because the clock would have been built into the panelling at the front of the gallery, with a simple box behind it to keep the dust, and prying fingers, out. Your movement was very likely 'liberated' by a workman demolishing an old building.

I am almost certain this clock has plannet gears inside the fusee so it can still run while been wound, i will be able to confirm if this the case when i wind it on sunday.
Thanks for your input.
C_W

That is very unlikely. Inside your fusee will be a ratchet wheel, a click (pawl) and a spring. I think you are referring to 'maintaining power', which was fitted to very accurate clocks such as regulators where the loss of a few seconds when winding would be unacceptable. Your clock will not stop whilst you are winding it.

Be very careful when you are dismantling your clock because I can see from the photo that it is fully wound. If you don't let the power off gradually you will very likely end up with some broken wheel teeth and pivots (expensive to repair)and cut fingers!

 

[Spyro]

C'mon let's cut to te chase, how much s it worth?

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

C'mon let's cut to te chase, how much s it worth?

About £2500

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

The reason a gallery clock is wound from the back is because it is not accessible from the front. Imagine, for example, something like a concert hall, where the clock would be mounted high up on the front of the 'minstrel gallery' so that everyone could see it. It would be very inconvenient to have to get a long ladder out every week in order to wind it. Instead access from the back is provided.

There never would have been a 'case' in the conventional sense because the clock would have been built into the panelling at the front of the gallery, with a simple box behind it to keep the dust, and prying fingers, out. Your movement was very likely 'liberated' by a workman demolishing an old building.



That is very unlikely. Inside your fusee will be a ratchet wheel, a click (pawl) and a spring. I think you are referring to 'maintaining power', which was fitted to very accurate clocks such as regulators where the loss of a few seconds when winding would be unacceptable. Your clock will not stop whilst you are winding it.

Be very careful when you are dismantling your clock because I can see from the photo that it is fully wound. If you don't let the power off gradually you will very likely end up with some broken wheel teeth and pivots (expensive to repair)and cut fingers!

Parsifel you are spot on.
In my original post I never mentioned where it actually came from when it was given to me, but you just have.
It was found in a skip sited at a music hall in Glasgow in which my late father-in-law was working while the hall was getting renovated.
You have probably just answered the question (why there was no case), otherwise my f-i-l would have taken that too.
I have been in contact with the chairman of the Scottish music hall and theatre society who adviced me that there was only one hall renovated in Glasgow in 95-96 which is probably around the time it was given to me.
Now I need to find pics from that hall to see if it is visible in any of them.

As for spring tension etc, there is a ratchet and pawl on the front plate for increasing spring tension which can also be used to release tension in a controlled manner, but I dont intend to strip it.
Thanks.
C_W