Antifreeze - quick question

[markc]

I am planning on topping up the antifreeze in my engines this weekend, ready for the onset of winter. What I would like to know is can I just drain some water and top up header tank with neat antifreeze then run the engines to mix it up. Or do I haveto mix it in a bucket and mess around?

Thanks!!
M

 

[hlb]

Just chuck some in and wiz it around.

Haydn

 

[byron]

What Haydn said

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www.education-jobs.co.uk
www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[markc]

Thanks you two!

 

[c_j]

First off find out the mix you have at present. Measureing the specific gravity I think is it but I may be getting mixed up with battery acid

Don't get caught out like I did (and the Boatyard come to that who should have know better). If you are topping up KAD44's and maybe other Volvo's as well the level in the plastic header tank are hot levels not cold as you would think.

If you top them up to the level cold you will spend the next week pumping out from the bilge, and sleepless nights because you think the head Gasket has blown.

Also neat Anti freeze has a knack of causing leaks as it tends to search around hose couplings etc. So for the sake of a little extra work, if the mix is weak at present drain off and fill with mixed anti-freeze.

Sorry it was'nt the easy answer.


CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[ToMo]

Get yerself off to Halfords, buy an antifreeze tester (arround £3 but lasts forever) check strength...then if necessary do what Haydn said - if you are lucky...do nowt!

 

[Piers]

I, too, have KAD44s, which are always spilling coolant into the bilge. When you say "hot level", to what level do you fill the header when the engines are cold?

Piers du Pre
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast

 

[c_j]

Hi Piers,

Well this is the stupid thing about it. You know all the warnings about removing the filler cap to a hot engine and indeed you SHOULD NOT do this but there is no level indicator for filling a cold engine. The level on the bottles is for a hot engine.

I could not believe it when I found out, (its in the manual).

In fact the correct level on my engines is when the coolant is just visible in the containers. At this level when cold the level appears about right when hot.

Since I found this out I have had no further problems with, as you say coolant in the bilge.

I must admit that I thought the hot and cold levels would be very similar even after I read the manual but not on my engines which both act in exactly the same way.



CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[hlb]

Just fill it to the top. then it will spew out what it dont want.
If all ok, should only but a bit in once every Preston Guild. So a bit more or less water in the bilge not much problem.

Haydn

 

[Piers]

Thanks for the reply and info.

The point about not removing the filler cap of a hot engine was first learned when as a young lad (about a hundred years ago...) I removed the cap of a pressurised car system when working as a student at a filling station! Never again....

I too have been told to fill the bottle until fluid is only just seen in the bottle, and not to the min or max marks.

Interestingly, what is strange is that even doing this, and even changing from the supplied small bottles to the much larger capacity newer expansion bottles, I still have the same fluid spill.

Any further ideas?

Piers du Pre
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast

 

[hlb]

But dose it matter. Thats what the little dangly pipe is for.
Stick a bucket under it if its a problem.
I've never seen a bilge without a few inches of water in it,
thats what its for. Whats the probem with another little bit??

Haydn

 

[Guest]

> I've never seen a bilge without a few inches of water in it

Errm, presumably, if we never had water in the bilges then, we could make boats that didn't need to be waterproof? Or boats that let water through one way, but not the other?

Gore-Tex hull, anyone?

 

[Piers]

Aha! It matters to me (fussy sort of chap). The bilge is usually dry and shiny, and having coolant slopping around after a trip gets on my wick. I just want to stop the overflow and the having to refill every trip....perhaps a bucket to collect and re-fill would work, but the question remains - why does it happen in the first place?

Piers du Pre
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast

 

[chrisc]

This was a quick question ?

 

[boatone]

Sounds like a progressive programme of measured fluid reduction is called for but I am troubled - as Ally McBeals odd partner would say!.
When you say there is still fluid spil, how much exactly? Not pints of the stuff surely?
If its just a small quantity just top up with a little bit less each time until you reach that magic moment when just enough goes in and no more comes out.

I agree about having nice dry bilges. If you've got shaft drives a bit of water in the bottom goes with the territory but with outdrives theres no reason why a well maintained engine compartment shouldnt stay nice and dry.

boatone@boatsonthethames.co.uk

 

[Guest]

aah Chris, but the question WAS quick. It's the answers that are longer.

 

[c_j]

I too like a clean and dry bilge and after my last service when the Volvo Dealer filled the tanks to maximum then plus some, I was cleaning out water for days:

I know that seems crazy but I was under the illusion that they knew what they were doing and so as soon as the level went down I topped it up to maximum again!

I went back and asked them what the problem might be and they took it out on a sea trial and said to keep my eye on it!

In the end I RTFM and hey presto no more problem.

As far as filling it up and just letting it find its own level I have to say that anti freeze is not the best thing to have spraying about on the engine paintwork as it can be corrosive. I also wonder if a syphoning effect can exist.

It is a fact however that the only way to find out what the level should be (and working on the assumption you have no other problems and you keep a very close eye on the temprature guage) is not to keep filling it up!





CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[hlb]

Re: The final solution!!

Well cars have a nice hole under the engine so water dripping out aint no problem.
Could you not arrange a hole under the engines to do likewise!!

Haydn

 

[hlb]

Re: The final solution!! PS.

Chuck some Radweld in and wiz that round a bit before the anti freeze. That will stop the leaks.

Haydn

 

[Piers]

If you have any ideas, I'd be grateful. Meanwhile, here's the exact situation.

Bought the boat new in 1995 - a Princess V39 with a pair of KAD44 with outdrives. Now completed 700 hours.

Topping the expansion bottles to the min mark has always meant a half pint of coolant in the normally prostine bilges, per trip. (Even tried the 'max' mark in case too little fluid available meant excessive heat etc.)

Always been slightly more fluid loss from the stb engine, but then that could be the "calorifier effect".

Adopted the habit of just filling the bottles until the exit hose was just covered. No difference.

Was told last year that Volvo had changed the bottle to a much larger one to cope with the problem. Had them fitted. Even given the significantly larger volume, no difference.

Volvo (Watford) began saying I needed another expansion bottle into which the excess fluid could drain, and as the engines cooled, the excess fluid could be drawn back into the expansion bottle.

Thinking this was Heath Robinson, I decided to have the heads off and investigate. This thinking was based on the fact that the initial batch of KAD44 engines had a known problem with leaky head gaskets - (gasket make and model was changed by Volvo on subsequent engines). Although I was uncertain mine were leaking, I was determined to ensure no stone was left unturned.

Off they came - both were flat (4 and 6 thou - within tolerance). Oil coolers and heat exchangers were sent for descaling.

(Whilst this was being done, took the opportunity to have the injectors 'done', and the valves re-seated.)

Now ready for the first sea-trial. If it doesn't work....can't bear the thought....

Piers du Pre
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast