Anti-social wash

[Guest]

My boat has been known to make something of a tidal wave at full chat but I have tended to feel that complaining yachtsmen should not be at sea if their vessel can't handle a 3 ft wave. I hasten to add that I do not set out to upset anyone and always try to give a wide berth or slow down as appropriate.

My views have changed at bit following this weekend. The boss and I were anchored Saturday night in Caladh harbour in the Kyles of Bute. On Sunday morning she wants to read her Sunday paper and I am dispatched in the dinghy down to Tignabruaich. Said dinghy is an Avon rib 2.80 with an 8hp Suzuki and can do circa 20knots with one up. Off I go then to find that the water is full of seaweed after high winds of the previous week. Its about two miles to the shop and I have to stop twice to clear weed from the prop. On the way back there are three largish flybridge cruisers coming up behind me at over 20knts and what happens - the prop fouls again and I have to stop to clear it. At this point the Kyles are about 1/2 mile wide and I am reasonably close to the shore, out of the main channel. The cruisers go past one after the other about 100 yds away and I am faced with a sea of Tsunami proportions whilst drifting powerless. I got wet, the papers got wet and no amount of fingered gestures would persuade them to slow up. My wife was almost dusting down the life policies!

The question is therefore, do you all agree that motor boaters are lacking in consideration of humble dinghy drivers - I mean its bad enough being half drowned once but three times in a row?

Nick

 

[Guest]

Nick,
Now that's a thoughtful posting. You should see the one on the PBO BB (Bloody motorboats), if you want the full vitriol of the yachting world.

As a yachtsman, I agree with you about the effects of wash but then my craft is 38' and can cope. I'm not sure whether I'd be so friendly if the crat was20'!

Chris Enstone, Rival Spirit

 

[miket]

Most of my boating has been non tidal Thames based and wash is not really an issue at 4.5 kts (unless you are a sculler!!).

I am now based in the Solent area and still try to be courteous and not pass too close to sailing yachts, but it is difficult on a busy weekend when the R Itchen and R Hamble are emptying into Southampton Water. If one went at a low wash speed there would be precious little point in having a fast boat.

I would be interested in the views of long term Solent based motor boaters

 

[Guest]

Re: yachts v motor boats

thanks for that. I had a look at the thread and have to confess to finding it offensive in the extreme. I regret I was moved to answer to gentleman concerned in rather robust terms but it does not alter the thrust of this thread.

Nonetheless, why are yachtsmen so righteous all the time. I have been boating since I was 7 and I am now in my fifties. What gives some guy in a yacht the right to believe that I am an idiot because I have a motorboat or that he knows more about seamanship than me?

Nick

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Nick, to a degree you've answered your own question. Was your dinghy seaworthy enough to be out in open water given the possibility of passing wash?
Down here in the Solent, wash is a fact of life due to the sheer numbers of boats about and, even though I believe myself to be a considerate motorboater, it is difficult sometimes to give small boats as much clearance as you would like simply because you're trying to steer to avoid other boats as well.
My attitude is that creating wash in rivers and marinas is entirely unacceptable but I think a motorboater is entitled to assume that, once out in open water, every other boat is seaworthy enough to withstand the wash of their boat as there are other vessels about, particularly commercial craft, which create a far larger wash than any motorboat and, certainly, they do not steer to minimize it's effect. Basically, if the wash of a passing motorboat endangers a small craft, then that small craft should'nt be there because the wash of the Harbourmaster's Nelson is far larger.
As motorboaters, I think we must appreciate that, in terms of wash, noise and exhaust pollution, motorboats are somewhat anti-social and we should be considerate enough to minimize the effects on our environment but, at the same time, yotties have to realize that the vast majority of motorboaters are responsible people pursuing a legitimate pastime

 

[Guest]

Re: occas. solent power yacht ...

This is jolly thoughtful indeed. I think that if all powerboat people had a day on a yacht, and vice versa, there'd be a lot more understanding. But mostly, the fault is all with the powerboaties, who don't know what it's like on a calm day as the wash hits, the wind gets wacked out of the sails, kids get knocked about and so on.

A yacht shouldn't notice a motorboat, really. The powerbaots that you do notice are ipso facto, too close. There's always tons of room, but a few port solenties (yes you, "Ultimate"residing at pontoon E at Port Solent) give yachts just ten or twenty metres, no deviation we're on a course from Cowes to Portsmouth doncha know.

Nick is right, the wave doesn't come through for ages afterwards. The wash problem is worst in flat water, and sorry to say that the "instructors" from Peters in Chichester marina plough past the moorings out in the harbour pulling a huge wash, quite dangerous for dinghys.

However, it's a fairly thankless job, being nice to some yotties. Only once was a massive deviation on our powerboat noticed and acknowledged by a proper sailor, so of course it wasn't on a Saturday or a Sunday in the Solent.

Most important, as NR says is to be careful of the little craft for whom a wash isn't just a pain, it's dangerous.

 

[(195)]

I'd be interested to hear whether or not those blaming powerboaters for antisocial behaviour can HONESTLY say they have NEVER experienced poor manners from their own branch of the boating world - I very much doubt it.
We can all be perceived as inconsiderate by others from time to time, but as we're all out there trying to enjoy ourselves, lets just get on with it and ENJOY, and stop moaning about minor irritations!!!

 

[Guest]

Re: righteous yotties

Yes, this feigned superiority of some yotties, esp ones in old their threadbare yachts or otherwise is indeed tiresome. I note that Zinfandel on the other forum can't spell Bournemouth on his cv bit, and does lots of DIY, very frugal etc. And the complaint about one of the powerboats using a mobile phone just might have been someone on the vhf.

In a powerboat we were sneered and ignored in Alderney, and more so when our quick thinking resuced one of their wallets which fell in from the water taxi. More amusingly, several of us sorted out a yacht in St Tropez, but had to insist that a) he was a bit dangerous to us and b)three of us on board owned much bigger sailboats, so we might actually know what we are doing, honest.

I see no reason why you shouldn't know lots more than a sailboat just because you have a powerboat. It has to be said though, that you need to know a bit more than nothing much to get anyway at all sailboat. Put another way, when a sailor reaches the destination, that's an achievement, whereas if a powerboatie doesn't reach a destination, it's often a bit (or a lot) of a cockup.

I'm afraid that I ocassionally work as a missionary in this regard, making friends with yacht owners before they find out that we're on a powerboat. Their wife and/or kids often rush over for a chance to escape the miserable semi-darkness and frugality of life on a sub-50 foot sailboat.

Best of all, my wife made friends with a boatie who started complaining about "stickboats" and she joined in saying that they seemed a peculiar lot. Only an hour later did I point out that he had said "STINKboat" meaning powerboat. But we were friends by then!

 

[Guest]

Re: righteous yotties

...this is an interesting question. As the owner of both my only observation would be that whilst both types of craft have their strengths and weaknesses a sailboat does need more technical skills to sail it and hence I guess the superior attitude. In an ideal world I would set off in the yacht for the pleasure of passage making and arrive in a motorboat for the comfort in port.

Chris Enstone, Rival Spirit

 

[markc]

Re: righteous yotties

but surely, by the time you actually got there in the sail boat, you wouldn't have any time to enjoy the motor boat before you had to set off on the 12 hour, 40 mile journey back again!!!

Mark

 

[Guest]

Re: yot or not?

In Antibes, we saw a boat (more like a ship) called Le Grand Bleu anchored off ...with a fully rigged 50 foot sailing yacht ready to crane off, and a powerboat and a collection of tenders and speedboats below decks.

The cheaper alterntiave would be a "stuff this" option on a sailboat: decent hydralic planing surface extendable from behind keel. Unfortunately, rear cabin will be full of engine and fuel tanks, but g'teed warmer saloon on arrival.

 

[markc]

Re: yot or not?

That would be similar to the thought I had [just for a laugh mind] to modify the hull on a 70' narrow boat, stick a Merlin engine in and get it up to 50 knts - a once only experience I fear

Mark

 

[Guest]

Re: righteous yotties

I agree that there is more skill required to sail a yacht but a well handled motor boat, especially in tight situations, requires quite a lot of skill. In a wind, for example, the absence of the keel of a yacht makes many motor boats skittish and tricky to control at marina speeds, especially outdrive boats. Likewise, if I went over to the dark side can anyone suggest why I would not quickly master the black art of sailing a yacht? It can't be that difficult based on the IQ of some yachtsmen I have met!

I think also the general psychology of the two fraternities is different. Sailors tend to enjoy being on the water for the sake of it - getting a bit more out of the boat, man and nature in harmony and all that sort of stuff. Motor Boaters, on the other hand enjoy departing and arriving and the feeling of depending on one's own resources whilst at sea. Motor Boaters also tend to enjoy the social side of being in port - is there anything better than a small libation on the flying bridge watching the world go by after a passage?

Beyond the boat handling skills, there is basic seamanship and here yachtsmen and Motor Boaters start equal. Knowing what a yellow buoy with two downward facing black cones means is just as much in the province of motor boats as yachts. Regrettably I think that you are likely to find a lot more motor boaters (proportionately) than yotties who do not have basic knowledge such as this because newcomers to boating tend to favour motor boats, especially the nouveau riche. Nonetheless, this does not justify the automatic assumption of superiority made by most yachtsmen when they regard a motor boat skipper.

Without wishing to open old sores and long argued points, I do think there is a case for the introduction of some form of test of competence preceding the granting of a pleasure boat licence.

Controversially,


Nick

 

[Guest]

OK - here goes? I am a motorboater and have been since I was 6 years old! I am one of those people who like to relax and let technology do the work I'm afraid - I don't sail, windsuf, cycle, climb mountains, etc. I have always loved engines and more recently computers! BUT I was taught by my father from 6 years old to respect other people in boats, cars, in the neighbourhood, etc and I feel that you have to compromise in life and fewer and fewer peolpe are prepared to do this?

I get angry when boats go past me [when I am in my marina] making excessive wash. We ocasionally get speedboats and PWC's but to be honest they go so fast that the wash is not a problem and so 'who cares?'. When I am anchored off [say] the needles in Alum Bay then I will frequently get annoyed because I didn't see the wash coming and spilt my wine! But I do accept that I am at sea and the sea has waves natural and manmade and it is part of life? I know some motorboaters are inconsiderate and I try not to force my love of motorboating onto others by disturbing them! I have also 'experienced' some scary washes whilst in my dinghy but I wasn't capsized and it was [sort of] like a rollercoaster ride afterwards so again no real harm done! We must accept the rough with the smooth [excuse the pun!]

I know a lot of people will argue with my views and that is OK too - what a boring world it would be if we were all out in the same boats at the same time tacking together, etc anchoring in the same place !? We are different, that is what [should] sets us apart from the animal world but I do sometimes wonder at where humanity is heading?

 

[Guest]

Re: skittish motorboats

Agreed, and a yottie friend was amazed when with difficult wind and tide we actually had to move down a fairway 45 degrees. Much easier in saily yacht with small windage which pretty much goes where it's pointed, tides aside.

Only trouble 'bout licencing/instruction is that of policing and such. Unless...how about new boats MUST be accompanied by instruction at handover, brokerage sales likewise, and marinas must provide basic instruction, free to bertholders/residents? Essentially self-policing with the marinas dragging in the nitwits, and the cautious volunteering for help. Doesn't have to be a full-time person, just a bit here and there. In any marina/harbour, there's always just few notorious smashers.

But unless one gets fairly decent and old-school one-to-one tuition, then (in my exp) no motorboatie is ever given a yardstick by which to measure how far away they should be from a sailboat, or dinghy or canoe.

 

[Guest]

Re: righteous yotties

This subject will go on forever I guess but everyone is being so general! It is not difficult to get a sailing boat to move with a basic understanding but it takes a lot of skill to get 100% out of it in any given scenario - agreed? Few boats are easy to handle in a marina if the wind/tide is running - I have seen motorboats blown all over but sailboats can do horrible things when the tide catches the keel so no one boat is easy in all conditions - agreed?

I have seen both fraternaties think they rule the sae and that is the shame because it is one of the few places left that we can do what we want [as long as it is not drugs or immigration] without any government or authority spoiling our enjoyment and relaxation! Let's not spoil it for each other by throwing 'bones' at one another about who's purer and has more of a right, etc. If you want a quiet drive in the country then you don't park at Brands Hatch and complain about the noise do you?

If that guy on a motorboat is enjoying his day a lot then he may have heard his wife is pregnant or whatever 'has made his day?' let him be and conversely the sailor who wants to kill you may have had some bad news??? Give others the benefit of the doubt? Well, to a point anyway?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: righteous yotties

Absolutely not, Nick. Compulsory licensing is extremely undesirable from two points of view. Firstly, there's no evidence that it actually makes the person any more competent; watch the antics in any French marina for evidence of that or drive on our roads, for that matter. Secondly, bureaucracy invades our lives everywhere; we already have the useless Boat Safety Scheme, CE classifications and new drink/drive regulations. Bring in compulsory licensing and you invite the grey suits to get involved even further.Boating at sea is one of the few relatively unregulated pastimes left and its all the better for that
Persuasion not coercion is the way to encourage boaters to improve their skills. It's up to the manufacturers, dealers, industry bodies, media and even us to make those new to boating buy into the desirability of getting trained to a higher level of competence

 

[byron]

Re: righteous yotties

I'd like to add my comment to Deleted User's words of wisdom...

WELL SAID sir.

©2001

 

[Guest]

Re: righteous yotties

Short one ... promise! Licensing is all very well but drivers have to learn how to drive and pass a test to get a licence - doesn't mean they drive like that afterwards ...

 

[Guest]

Re: agreed Deleted User so...

If a suitable handover was required of anyone selling (praps a new or brokerage) boat, then that mite help a bit? Blimmin eck if you but a new boat the service has sunk so low that that they feel that they're doing you a big favour handing over the install instructions for the components. At least if you buy a new car (even just 10 grand) the sales chap feel that he ought to make sure you know what's what. But I don't disagree tho that complete beurocratic nightmare would wd ensure from this or other ideas.