Another YM question...

[michael_w]

As they've got too much canvas up, I suggest dropping the storm jib. She'll lie closer to the wind with main alone, rather than jib alone, which will tend to make her bear away.

As far as finding somwhere to rest below, I've spent many a night on the cabin sole, tucked up in sailbags. The trick is staying out of the bilge water.

Carry on for Cherbourg. One of the finest harbours IMHO. Well lit, easy entrance, room for Mirabella V to round up and take her sails down and reasonable restaurants to boot.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Quite happy watching out for merchantmen, thank you. That the least problematic card Magnacarta has dealt in this hand. And a reach out into the channel in that breeze is gonna take them away from the Alderney Race very quickly. It will also reduce the apparent, which'll cheer everyone up a bit.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Ken,

Thats the answer I was looking for....

Sea room, and choosing the right sail to drop....... in this case, IMHO, the main, as most modern boats are really hard to sail under main alone......

I also suspect that personally I would have started by dropping the main, and seeing how she felt under the jib sail alone with a view to possibly continuing to plug towards Cherbourg upwind.... before choosing the option to turn round and flee off downwind...

There was never going to be a right answer here, I was just throwing up a scenario (in this case - obviously flawed!) to see what people's instant reactions were......

I always find these what if scenarios really interesting, and educational

 

[jamesjermain]

Wind ENE Force 9; you'll be hard on the wind - probably having to tack - with three reefs and the storm jib I don't think you are going to make it - and even if you can make reasonable way to windward, with the turn of the tide your VMG to waypoint will be nil if your lucky - six hours of marking time. What time is it, by the way?

I think the best answer is to reach off into the Channel and either keep going until you reach England or until the wind eases/backs and you can lay Cherbourg. The entrance to Cherbourg is all weather, even with an onshore wind.

But hang on! What's the weather forecast? Backing northerly Force 10 might make my plan untennable and I would be too close to the coast of France to be able to heave to for any length of time. If this was the case I think I would just accept I was in for a really sh*tty 12 hours and jog slowly west where there are no dangers, maintaining little more than steerage way. Ensuring the crew, and I, get sufficient rest is key so a rigourous watch system must be imposed

I take comfort in the story of Adlard Coles who was caught in a storm on his way to the Channel Islands in, if I remember, the early 50s. He hove to for a while and was then insufficiently sure of his position to make landfall in an onshore gale. So he reached up and down the Channel for three days until the gale abated. As I recall, when he did make landfall he was exactly where he though he was - a brilliant feat in the days before even RDF

 

[alant]

Obvious solution now your out & north of Cap de la Hague, is to turn tail, run W/NW until the blow eases. Will be a much easier ride & even with storm jib only, should suffice & keep you off the hard bits. Get some sea room.

Yes, you will have wind over tide conditions initially, but this will soon change. Hopefully making sure that you don't need to look for assistance, if required, from the many 'helpful' vessels transiting the nearby TSS off the Casquets. Once you clear this area, should be ok.

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
Quite happy watching out for merchantmen

[/ QUOTE ] yeh yeh, I know you would, I'm suggesting that our crew may not though, especially hove too.

 

[bedouin]

I'm totally with Ken on this - the skipper has already demonstrated questionable decision making in setting off for Cherbourg and that will only get worse as the night progresses.

Finding a comfortable point of sail away from danger must be the most important thing. coming off the wind should mean the boat is a lot less pressed, and would also give the options of dropping one of the sails if that would make life more comfortable.

Once settled you should be able to make do with one or at most two people on deck at a time - enabling the others to get some rest

Then of course as soon as you get make to England you should sell the boat and buy a proper Holman-designed boat that can cope with the weather /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Makes sense JJ,

Certainly for me, sea room would be a priority..... it would only take one failure in those conditions, with limited fuel for what is a messy situation to turn into a disasterous one.....

What has caught my eye is the number of people that suggested dropping the Jib rather than the main....

What are people's views on this, because my experience is that modern boat designs are not at all happy under main alone in a blow, and much much better under just jib, and should you need to free off to run off downwind, then a main alone would be a complete liability, and with an exhausted crew and heavy seas, re-hoisting the jib, and dropping the main to swap them over would be both dangerous and maybe even impossible...... thoughts?

 

[dom]

I would do all the usual ie let coatguard know we were ok but finding it tough grovel a bit and get updated weather etc.

Funny but I sail such a boat. Upwind is pretty miserable in that kind of wind. Boat is presumably a mess down below with the pounding and lack of preparation and crew a bit miserable. I would do the following:

1. Have a proper chat with crew so all knew that this was not a survival situation but that some might see seas they had not seen before. Get them into good mindset and drink and eat sugary things.

2. I agree with Ken better to drop jib and reach NW. 35 - 40 kts app traveling at 6 12 kts surfing off big waves would be fine. The wide stern really helps here. I would NOT go near the Alderney Race - not even consider it.

3. I would gybe [tack around] the back of the Csaquettes as the seas calmed with the change in tide and in the morning enter Guernsey from the south or Jersey which would be easy.

4. When tied up I would emphasise the learning experience they had just had rather than focus on the fact that I had been a bit of a c*ck sucker!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

The real danger here of course is the tired crew and skipper, leading to even worse decision making..... the suggestion of enforcing rest for the crew, is IMHO also a critical part of the plan here.....

 

[dom]

Beig serious for a moment - if I can! - you are 100% correct here and it is as simple as that.

If the crew begins to panic they stop eating and drinking and resting. You would now be better on your own as not only do they become useless they become a distraction.

If however the crew know that you are a good sailor albeit just cocked up that will be a start. They also need to know that the wind can only build waves so high before the tide turns probably in a couple of hours. They also need to know that the next tide will see you behind Guernsey.

It is hard but crew must know that if they feel ill they must just after being sick eat sugar and drink water.

Finally SAFETY must be focussed on. No releasing harnesses until through the companionway. No getting sick over the side. In short no heroics.

 

[awol]

On second thoughts, it's Darwinian theory in practice. If this numpty who probably is overweight, smokes and drives a 4wd has got himself into a mess without knowing the first thing about his boat, then I feel sorry for his crew who should have known better. Sea room, as little sail as is comfortable - I favour the storm jib alone but I've never sailed one of these far-arsed jobbies in a blow - rigid watch system and phone the wife to tell her what fun I'm having.

I think I prefer the col-regs what-ifs - much easier to argue!

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
It is hard but crew must know that if they feel ill they must just after being sick eat sugar and drink water

[/ QUOTE ]

Time to break out the crystallized ginger!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Easier to argue yes, but these things happen..... any boat owner who claims never to have made a bad decision is IMHO probably a liar!......

The other factir I haven't discussed yet, and someone above mentioned (think it was Ken without referring back) is that with such a rapid fall of pressure, the blow is likely (although not guaranteed) to disappear as fast at is came.... so again another argument for finding short term respite with sea room....

 

[snowleopard]

Drop the main, bear away and head for Dartmouth. Look forward to breakfast at Alf Resco's.

 

[Pinnacle]

My only experience in a REAL blow ( over 50 kts ) showed that sailing with a v small jib and no main was ok. In a 37 foot yacht we managed to make min 7 kts with the wind beam on. Because we had good steerageway, you could try and steer the boat through the worst of the waves. Keeping the weather beam on seemed to be a lot more comfortable than other points of sailing. Food and drink is very important, but most of all, keep well away from any lee shore/shallow water. Harness and lifejackets are a must. When coming up into the cockpit, pass the line to the crew on deck, and do not come up the last couple of steps until they have clipped you on. Follow same proceedure in reverse when going below.

BTW, it was a fantastic sail in massive waves!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

"The other factir I haven't discussed yet, and someone above mentioned (think it was Ken without referring back) is that with such a rapid fall of pressure, the blow is likely (although not guaranteed) to disappear as fast at is came"

Yes but also there may also be a signifcant shift coming, which might turn a windward shore into a lee one. Another reason for not picking an alternative port of refuge at the mo.

 

[Robin]

Comments only having come to this late!

1 Don't even THINK of Alderney/Braye if the wind might go into the NE quadrant.

2 If you did and didn't listen to Jersey Radio, CROSS or ANO forecast and it is really too late to leave, stick the boat on a buoy in the NE corner of Braye, use some chain looped trhough the eye on the buoy and either sit it out (ugh) or call Mr Mainbrayce with his big rubber taxi and sleep ashore.

3 The tides time is the key. St Peter Port is a MUCH better option, downhill, wind and tide together. If you can't catch the Swinge at slack (it is on the lee side of the Island) then consider the other route down through the Race. The Race is surprisingly flat if wind and tide are together which is why St Peter Port often fills up in a NE blow because boats arrive from the UK and Cherbourg but very very few leave to go back when wind and tide are opposed!

4 Otherwise, having left for Cherbourg and now off Cap De La Hague found the really rough bit (it will be!) tack out to sea. After a while you can decide if the seastate has improved (it might, clear of CDH) in which case tack back for Cherbourg OR go for Weymouth or even Torbay.

5 Most boats can find somewhere for someone to sleep at sea, even if it is on the floor. Even a double aft cabin can sleep one person wedged on the lee side with a sailbag.

6 If you are going to cruise properly don't buy a boat with a linear galley or make up sandwiches and flasks of soup and coffee, Mars Bars etc before you leave. Linear galleys are an invention of the devil, useless at sea and in harbour you get to look at all the dirty dishes whilst you eat, quite spoils the meal seeing what has to be done next.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Very good point.... see.... these threads are educational!

Might have to start another one in a bit!

 

[dom]

Met have a talk to a forecaster number where you can call up for personal advice. Racing crews use this service a lot and it is very good. It might be worth keeping the number beside the ships details.