Another which boat question?

[bumblefish]

I am looking for something to take my two children out on, age 7 and 5 and intending to get older. I do not want a racer, I want accommodation, stablility and ease of sailing short handed, but able to take a bit of a blow, both weather and marina! Probably 32-33', about £25,000. I have looked at a number of boats including Sadler 32, UFO 34, Hummingbird and others and I keep coming back to the Sadler. What else should I be looking at?

<hr width=100% size=1>...If you can find the simple solution to a complex problem, you've got it wrong!.........

 

[Talbot]

Perhaps you should also be looking at other alternatives. If stability is a requirement, perhaps a catamaran might provide the answer. With the age of your children it might be nice for you to have a boat that has separate cabins for each child, and for yourself plus spare for friends if needed perhaps you should conside


a catamaran

(ducks back behind parapet)
seriously, you could do worse than consider a Heavenly Twins or even a 9m Catalac!

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[greatspirit]

Get a catamaran
25000 will get you a heavenly twins, catalac or best of all an iroquois
I remember my daughter doing her homework sitting in the cabin (with a 360 degree view) while sailing downwind at 12 knots
Children love cats
no contest
good luck
tim

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[Talbot]

Not a great fan of the iriquois. Emphasis is too much on performance (not surprising considering her pedigree.) I do not like daggerboards on a cruising boat, and dont consider her to be a boat for full time crew of 4, occasional use yes, but not a growing family boat when there are better available.

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[adee]

By a verl 900 they have great acomadation fab sea boat and very underestimated and from the board of the great robert clarke. these boats point so well and you will get a very good on for £20,000 have a look at one and be suprised. as you can tell i own one best boat i have sailed

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[greatspirit]

What's wrong with daggerboards?
Down to prevent leeway when pointing up and no drag when up & sailing downwind and nothing to trip over in heavy weather
Also a fast boat is a safe boat, passages can be made quickly and in daylight and within accurate weather forecasting windows
Not to mention 2 double cabins, 2 single berths and you can still use the table and look outside, separate heads and an enormous cockpit
and show most other boats a clean pair of transoms........

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[Talbot]

I do not mean to decry another persons choice, however from the original posters perspective, I beleive that a cat with daggerboards is not such an attractive proposition, and I am not alone in this view:
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Dagger boards

Positive: At reasonable speeds with water flowing over the foil, you may achieve higher pointing ability in a relative narrow steering groove.

What’s wrong with that?

· Recently, a world cruising client said that, " ...(he) had talked to owners with dagger boards in several ports, and they all said that they tended to keep the board all the way down almost all of the time. When they tried to get them up, they were stuck because of the barnacles that had formed around the boards and inside the trunk where it's difficult to bottom paint, one, and difficult to clean, two. The result is that they got most of the disadvantages and none of the advantages.

· Vulnerability: The dagger board is easily broken by grounding, or floating debris. On grounding, with the board up, it’s subject to small stones or shells jamming the board requiring hauling or major diving correction. Anything done to make the center bottom of the hull increase in lateral resistance (making it deeper to protect the rudder and prop) takes away from maneuverability (The boat becomes more like a long keep monohull.) In addition, assuming the rudder and drive are theoretically protected by making the hull deeper is done by adding rocker to the hull. Just as the name implies, if you try to set the boat on it’s bottom it will rock back and can still damage these aft appendages, not to mention jam debris up the dagger board trunk.

· The lateral plane with a dagger board is generally about ½-2/3 less less. At low speeds, with cross winds, with the boards up or down there is little lateral plane and the boat will tend to blow sideways making it very difficult to control.

· FINALLY: While the dagger board theoretically increase upwind performance slightly, the reality is that a thin foil stalls out very easily compared to the thicker foil of a typical shoal keel. Once stalled, the performance is worse. An inattentive helmsman, or an autopilot will probably, on average, under typical cruising (somewhat laid back) cruising conditions, actually experience worse, not better performance from dagger boards. If you’re racing and the race committee enjoys setting up a large proportion of windward courses, and you have 3-4 helmsmen who enjoy steering as you change helmsmen every hour—you may realize an advantage. If not, enjoy your much easier to handle shoal draft boat.

This is not to say that boats like the Fountaine Pajot aren’t good performing boats. When you consider a cruising boat, fully loaded and short handed, (not a racing crew) they do well. In a recent Arians Cup sponsored by the European Space industry, there were over 100 cruising cats entered. The race was won by a Bahia 46. Second place was an Athena 38. In fact 8 of the top 15 places were taken by FP.

In countless cruising races where a variety of boats fun race in a fully loaded condition, boats with normal catamaran keels, and full hulls with great load carrying ability--win!



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[dulcibella]

Think about the disadvantages of catamarans before succumbing to their obvious charms. Problems and costs of berthing a boat very wide for its length, relatively poor performance to windward, etc. They may roll very little, but they tend to pitch a lot.

Returning to monohulls, the Sadler 32 is an excellent boat with a good reputation for sailing characteristics and soundness of construction. The second-hand boat shows associated with the Southampton boat show (Deacons etc) would give you a good chance to look at a lot of used boats in the right size range if you can get there.

Hope you find something that suits you and your family well.

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[NickyTaniwha]

If you like the Sadler 32, why not have a look at the S&S34, Taling 32, DEB 33 or the Dufour Arpege? And there was another type, but the name doesn't come to mind, will post a reply later. Or if you want a yacht with a bit more beam: the Contest 34?

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[Bodach na mara]

I'm very happy with my Westerly Renown and all that 31' family (Berwick, Longbow and Pentland) offer good accommodation and sailing.

<hr width=100% size=1>Ken Johnson

 

[simonfraser]

25k will buy you a prout too, check, out
http://www.multihullworld.com/frameset.htm
Simon

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I agree, multi's are not for everyone and are a tad more expensive to run and maintenance is often doubled.

For a first boat owner they may also not be the correct choice, they do not sail the same and are less common (less people to ask questions of)

But for your accommodation needs for price it might be the answer.

Though you can also buy a hell of a monohull for £25,000 depends how much work you would be prepared to do. If sailing with children as you say, I would be looking for a deep cockpit where they can be left alone for times and you will not be scared they drop into the oggin.

The advantage given regarding 360° views from a multi saloon is also good though, should you want them out of the way, there must be nothing worse for a child than being stuck below in a dark saloon where they cannot see whats happening.

Enjoy looking. If you are piqued by catamarans do feel free to have a nose around my website, there are plenty of photographs of the Heavenly Twins which was given earlier as a possible choice.

Good Luck

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[Aeolus_IV]

Add a Centurion 32 to that list.

Me, I'm biased.
Regards, Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>

 

[pragmatist]

Sadlers are great - had our 29 for 9 years. But you might also consider Rival 32 or 34 and the classic Contessa 32.

And in reply to all those cat fans - not all children do like cats. Our daughter thought the greatest fun was heeling and cracking along hard on the wind - especially if permitted to dangle feet from lee side. She thinks current boat is boring because it heels less - sure she'd have given a cat the thumbs down, despite speed and 360 degree vision.

Why not take your kids on someone else's boat and see what appeals ? The other thing we found great was the ability to dry out so they could spend time on beaches, sand banks etc.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK

 

[willothewisp]

Contests are wonderful sturdy boats, however, they don't have a bilge worth mentioning, so there's a good chance of water sloshing round the floorboards under heel.

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