Another Sunsail bang on the head.

I've never thought the mainsheet arrangement on thousands of Westerleys very safe. 4 part purchase scything across the cockpit from the transom to the boom, at just the right angle to garotte the helmsman.

If you have novices on board it is the duty of the more experienced crew to look after them and show them what's what. If necessary give the newbie a minder.

The problem comes when you have too high a preportion of novices. Don't have a beginner on the mainsheet.

All a bit obvious, innit.
 
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Or wrap yourself in cottonwool and stay in bed.


[/ QUOTE ] Nah. That's a bit extreme. I'm just trying to point out that there is a simple way to reduce the rates of a certain type of boating accident.

As you point out, we started off without VHF, GPS, serviceable life-jackets, even engines in my case. Very exciting. And very few people sailed then, because it was rather hairy and seen as a risky sport.

It's a different world now, when so many of the barriers to entering the sport have been removed. And people have much higher expectations of safety. Things will change . . . best to stay ahead of the game.
 
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Or wrap yourself in cottonwool and stay in bed.

Manufacturers take note; stop building boats, someone may get hurt.

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My thoughts exactly.

Having the mainsheet in the cockpit of a racing boat is SAFER. As the only person it's likely to "interact" with is the person who is trimming it, and so providing it with 100% of their concentration. Racing crew climb over the coachroof through tacks and gybes, putting the mainsheet up there on a racing boat merely brings more of the crew who aren't concentrating on it into the "danger Zone".
 
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Having the mainsheet in the cockpit of a racing boat is SAFER. As the only person it's likely to "interact" with is the person who is trimming it, and so providing it with 100% of their concentration. Racing crew climb over the coachroof through tacks and gybes, putting the mainsheet up there on a racing boat merely brings more of the crew who aren't concentrating on it into the "danger Zone".


[/ QUOTE ] Lets just get some definitions right. The dangerous bit of the mainsheet is the parts which sweep across the vessel, propelled with high forces. I propose that this bit should not sweep across the cockpit. Your addition to this argument is that it should not sweep across the coach roof either. Fine. Put it behind everyone, if you can.

As for the tame little bit of string at the end which is actually used to control the sheet angle - lead it where you like. It's not dangerous. The cockpit will do.
 
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Put it behind everyone, if you can.



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They do. On yachts over about 60 foot.

Otherwise I'm afraid you're living in cloud cuckoo land. Face facts, sometimes people get hurt when they go sailing. Sometimes they even die. Safety devices and attitudes are way ahead of where they used to be, but this is not, and never will be, a risk free sport.
Every part of a yacht's design is a compromise. You have chosen lessened control and slower reaction to gusts as an accpetable trade off to having the mainsheet out of the cockpit. Fine, good for you. For me that's an unaceptable trade off. And knowing I sail with a mainsheet that could sweep across the cockpit I sail accordingly, using preventers when appropriate and exercising controled gybes.
When sailing with corporate guests in breezy conditions downwind I had a very simple "I'm driving" policy to prevent inexperienced crew crash gybing. Every Sunsail skipper I know does the same.
 
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I've never thought the mainsheet arrangement on thousands of Westerleys very safe. 4 part purchase scything across the cockpit from the transom to the boom, at just the right angle to garotte the helmsman.

[/ QUOTE ] We met someone who'd had his arm broken by that sort of mainsheet. During a gybe it trapped the arm he was bracing against the pushpit. That was on a Griffon with exactly the same mainsheet layout as ours.
 
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You have chosen lessened control and slower reaction to gusts as an accpetable trade off to having the mainsheet out of the cockpit.

[/ QUOTE ] You missed my point. Which was that the controller's end of the mainsheet can happily be in the cockpit, a different place from the dangerous part of the mainsheet. So there's no question of 'lessened control and slower reaction to gusts'.

What matters is where the dangerous part is. And that should preferably be somewhere where the crew don't spend much time.

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They do. On yachts over about 60 foot.

[/ QUOTE ] Well, mine was only 40ft, and the mainsheet nasty bits flitted safely behind everone, while the control end sat nicely in the cockpit. So I guess I've been [ QUOTE ]
living in cloud cuckoo land

[/ QUOTE ] I'm well aware that sailing has risks. I set up a reasonable sized charter operation for novices and inexperienced people some time back. After a couple of accidents we re-rigged many vessels, sold some others, and kept nasty bits of the mainsheets out of the cockpit from then on. It can be done.
 
I haven't missed your point. If the mainsheet attachment isn't at the end of the boom you have compromised the control you have over the sail, if this wasn't the case then you would see at least some race boats with alternative arrangements. Even if the end is then led back to the normal main sheet position you have less mechanical power and almost certainly a large increse in friction. Racers spend hundreds of pounds on friction reducing blocks for good reason, adding un-necessary blocks increases the amount of pull necessary to sheet the sail and reduces the speed that it can be dumped.
i never said that the "dangerous" part of the mainsheet couldn't be kept out of the cockpit. I'm talking about racing boats, and I'm saying that it cannot be kept out of the way of the entire crew (I'm guessing that your boat is a centre cockpit, unlike all modern racing boats?) and i for one would rather have the falls in the mainsheet position than anywhere else as this is the one person on a racing boat who should be concentrating on what's happening to the mainsheet!
 
I like the system they have on the Hunter Legend boats, where the mainsheet is at the end of the boom (for maximum efficiency), yet is totally out of the cockpit because it operates using a traveller mounted on the top of a goalpost mast.

This seems to combine the best of both worlds.
And the goalpost can then also be used for supporting a bimini and solar panels.
 
Now we're clear. You're talking about boats designed for racing. Not about boats designed for cruising or to give sailing experience to novices.

In my opinion, boats designed for racing in the way you've been discussing should not routinely be used to give 'sail experience' trips to novices or non-sailors.

And I think this is especially the case where most of the racing is one-design - where a handicap for one is a handicap for all. I think that's the main racing use for the Sunsail boats isn't it?
 
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So in your opinion the Sunsail boats are not fit for purpose?

[/ QUOTE ] Given your answers to my Qs half way back in the thread, and if their main activity is giving sailing (and even racing) experience to novices, the mainsheet set-up offers un-necessary dangers. To that extent, they're not fit for purpose and should be modified.
 
Dam, clearly I should hand in my Yachtmasters for agreeing to take paying punters on these awful boats.
Thanks so much for your advice.
 
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Strange how everyone is assuming the injured party was inexperienced. That doesn't seem to be stated anywhere.

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Beat me to that statement .... it happens to the best ... and law of averages says that if you have a lot of boats under a fleet name - there will be more accidents listed against that name even though possibly %age rate is no higher than another ....
 
As the boat that stood by until the police launch, helicopter & Cowes Inshore Lifeboat arrived let me spring to the crews' defence - whether experienced or not accidents do happen and they did the right things in the aftermath.

They called the coastguard requesting medical assistance and headed for Haslar. Solent CG connected them with a doctor and an evacuation by helicopter was planned so the crew followed the CG instructions - motored out of Portsmouth and got fendered up suitably for the Police launch, which had picked up India Juliet's winchman, to come alongside just out of the main shipping channel into Portsmouth.

All scary stuff regardless of your level of competence but well executed.
 
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