Another Sunsail bang on the head.

Think Sunsail have a big rigging flaw on their Sunfast 37's. They have a fine tuning block below the boom which is just at head height, see report

If this accident was also caused by the tuning block then they are seriously in need of reprimand. Hard hats aren't a bad idea if you're going to leave such a lethal arrangement in place on a charter boat

Better still would be to ditch the fine tuning block altogether on boats which will be sailed by unfamiliar crew (even if experienced)
 
johnphillips is thinking along the right lines. May I clarify?

A vessel which is routinely used by novices must not be dangerous in the cockpit when it gybes.

This implies a high boom (above head height - say 2.1 metres) when standing in the cockpit, with no hard stuff hanging below.

It also implies a sheeting arrangement outside the cockpit (on the coachroof, or better, a safe distance behind the helmsman).

If you routinely take out novices, confine them to the cockpit with such arrangements, and gybing will be safe. Tall novices (over 2m) may have to be strapped down, of course!

Any other arrangement and you'll lay yourself open to civil action for damages in the event of an accident. I'll offer my services as an expert (?) witness for a suitable fee . . .

JimB
Google 'jimb sail' to find my site, updated monthly:
Compares the cruise areas of Europe
 
"Its OK briefing people about the risks of gybes, but a very inexperienced crew member will have no idea either what a gybe is, or any idea of when its about to happen.... they may be briefed, but bet my bottom dollar that they don't fully understand it, and have forgotten much of it 20mins later..."

I my safety brief, I indicate where the boom is in relation to my height - due entirely to 'short' parents, I am perfectly formed of course, so have no problem with a boom. However, pointing out the 'usually taller' individuals standing on the cockpit side decks in a target area, that if the stand there whilst sailing, 2 possible results are possible. Best result (1) the boom will hit them into the water & they will drown, or worse (2) the boom will hit them into the water & they won't drown-----------but end up 'alive' as a vegetable!

Strangely enough, these options seem to concentrate their minds & with good cockpit management, I've been lucky never to have suffered such an incident onboard. However, any boat is a HSE minefield & accidents happen.

Both skipper & crew, including casualty, will have been traumatised on Sunsail 20 & we should feel sorry for them.
 
Apparently the EU is to make motorcycle-style crash helmets compulsory for all novice sailors where the apparent wind is more than 12 knots, and for all sailors where boat speed exceeds 18 knots. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Why shouldn't they allow Day Skippers to skipper yachts?
The RYA would not have called it Day Skipper if they did not intend for the qualification to be slightly above Competent Crew.
Candidates still have to pass an exam to get their Day Skipper, so in the eyes of the Examiner, these persons must be competent at doing everything required on the syllabus.

Edit - Have just read the motor cycle helmet post above, and have just cottoned on that it is April Fools Day, so I am sure that there will be all sorts of AF posts today!
 
Re: Another EU regulation.

And of course don't forget that cockpit seat belts will be compulsory on all charter boats in EU waters from 1/4/08!
 
I was helming on a Sunsail 37 last year with a reasonably experienced crew on board and the skipper had given a good briefing. As we executed a planned gybe the mainsheet went across and raked the neck and face of someone SITTING in the cockpit. Fortunately no serious injuries (still had his ear) but it left nasty rope burns on his neck and forehead. Fully agree that the sheet should be out of the cockpit.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How long before somebody is killed?

[/ QUOTE ]Sadly it has already happened at least once. The young Commodore of Holyhead Sailing Club lost his life after being knocked overboard last June (Newsletter). I don't think inexperience would account for that accident.
 
"As we executed a planned gybe the mainsheet went across and raked the neck and face of someone SITTING in the cockpit. Fortunately no serious injuries (still had his ear) but it left nasty rope burns on his neck and forehead."

Due to reported incidents similar to this & an investigation by MAIB, the RYA issued a missive to all instructors/schools, warning them about this possibility.

I seem to remember the incident investigated caused severe head injuries.
 
Awful lot of leaping to conclusions going on in this thread.

There is no indication of the experience level of the injured party. The sunsail boats are used by a huge variety of people, from people on start yachting courses to experienced sailors in regattas.
I know that a number of student crews were out this weekend in Sunsail boats, practicing for the BUSA event this week, so sadly it could be one of them. I haven't had a chance to find out.

A number of people are assuming that the article was in fact stating that the boom hit the person, when it does say mainsail. Admittedly this could be the result of a non-sailing reporter, but it could also be accurate and the person was knocked over by a flogging sail.

And the speculation of it being the mainsheet fine tune block. Sunsail took action on that issue mid way through last season and shortened the rope so it could only be a maximum of about 18 inches off the floor of the cockpit.

I used to work for Sunsail as a corporate skipper and instructor, and in my opinion the 37s are fit for purpose. The only issues I ever had came from the attitude of the corporate guests, not the students. At this time of year and on a weekend I very much doubt it was corporate guests.
 
[ QUOTE ]
and in my opinion the 37s are fit for purpose.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't know the 37s, so perhaps you can help here.

1. Do they routinely carry novices?

2. Is the mainsheet clear of the cockpit?

3. Is the boom higher than the standing height of a tall man in the cockpit?

If the answer to 1. is yes, then the answers to 2 and 3 must also be yes (in my opinion) for the boat to be fit for purpose.
 
The mainsheet is in the cockpit and used to have a fine tuning block at temple height

Shortening the line to bring the block down within 18 inches of the deck doesn't fix the fundamental problem of having a mainsheet plus novices in the cockpit
 
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes - I'm 6'3" and although I never tested it in anger I'm pretty sure it would go over my head, memory a little hazy though, haven't sailed one since september.

If the sole purpose of the boats was to introduce novices to sailing then I can see that having the mainsheet out of the cockpit has value. However, that is NOT the sole purpose of the boats. They also race. I for one would truly hate to be helming a corporate race crew in a crowded start line in breeze with the mainsheet way out of my reach. Especially in a fractionally rigged boat.

Now here's another question. If you learn to sail in sailing school boats who all have the mainsheet "out of the way" how are you going to realise the danger when you buy a boat with the mainsheet in the cockpit?
As far as i am aware none of the well publicised incidents that have taken place recently have involved sailing school boats engaged in teaching RYA courses. And I wouldn't expect them to, instructors will hammer home the safety aspects of gybing on courses, and students will go home will a full knowledge of the risks. Certainly any student I ever tought should be reaching for a preventer as soon as they are on a broad reach.
 
Two points;

1; I have chartered sunsail boats out of Largs twice, which enabled my family and I to experience a marvelous sailing area we would never have been able to sail to and from in a fortnights holiday. I have no complaint about the standard of boats or service.

2; All this safety talk make me wonder how I used to get away with teaching the army (from the age of 19) in Halcyon 27s in the 1970s. If they were such death traps how come I never had anyone injured ? (except a fellow cox'n instructor who got his head laid open by the spinnaker pole while drunk at Cowes week)

PS we didn't have vhf or gps either. How did we survive?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Now here's another question. If you learn to sail in sailing school boats who all have the mainsheet "out of the way" how are you going to realise the danger when you buy a boat with the mainsheet in the cockpit?


[/ QUOTE ] I'm glad you admit the danger.

Moral; don't buy, build, sell, cruising boats with cockpit mainsheets; they're inherently more dangerous than they need be. Insurers, take note.

For racers, by all means have a different, less safe category. Like those which, when taken past 100 degrees heel, invert and remain so. But better still, require those who race to have 'out of cockpit' main sheets. Crews will soon devise ways to overcome any handling difficulty that arises.
 
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