Another nail in the coffin of a unique culture?

[reginaldon]

Re: Another nail in the coffin of a unique culture? re. tisme

Will that be the 19th C that started with widespread slavery, or the 19th C of child labour, or disease, or high infant mortality? Or is it the 19th C of the Work House, Lunatic Asylums or deportation?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose you conveniently overlook the fact that almost every one of those evils were overcome through the crusading of 'evangelical types'; but I don't expect objectivity where prejudice is deep rooted.

 

[Tisme]

Re: Another nail in the coffin of a unique culture? re. tisme

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose you conveniently overlook the fact that almost every one of those evils were overcome through the crusading of 'evangelical types'

[/ QUOTE ]

You appear to be suffering from selective amnesia. One moment you are waxing lyrical about the 19th C because it was a time "when a vast majority honoured God", then you are claiming a victory for the evangelical brigade because they challenged the practises of the vast majority (who, of course, all honoured your god!)

To put it in perspective:
1. The practises of the early 19th C were widely supported by the Church and the vast majority of the god fearing population.
2. Whilst some of the improvements were as a result of the activities of "evangelical types" by no means all of them were. Don't forget that evangelical types also fiercely resisted change.

On your final comment, if I am prejudiced because I don't accept any of your religious mumbo jumbo then I am more than happy to stand accused. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Another nail in the coffin of a unique culture? re. tisme

>>>
You appear to be suffering from selective amnesia. One moment you are waxing lyrical about the 19th C because it was a time "when a vast majority honoured God", then you are claiming a victory for the evangelical brigade because they challenged the practises of the vast majority (who, of course, all honoured your god!)

To put it in perspective:
1. The practises of the early 19th C were widely supported by the Church and the vast majority of the god fearing population.
2. Whilst some of the improvements were as a result of the activities of "evangelical types" by no means all of them were. Don't forget that evangelical types also fiercely resisted change.
>>>

So we "know better" do we? Usual problem of judging historical figure by modern standards. The usual chestnut here concerns the miserable early life of a short Austrian Corporal, which any modern liberal lawyer would bring out at his trial and quite possibly get him off with a few months community service.

Slavery. Britain led the abolition movement. One of the leading abolitionists was the Bishop of Liverpool.

Child labour/workhouses. One of the most active opponents of this, who sought to provide children with decent education was the Sunday School movement, education with a strong religious bias. Another active "crusader" who wanted to do something for orphan children, or those whose parents could not afford to keep them was Charles Spurgeon:-
1866
Rev Charles Haddon Spurgeon wrote an article in "The Sword & the Trowel" containing the words "A great effort should be made to multiply our day schools and to render them distinctly religious by teaching the Gospel in them, and by labouring to bring these children as children to the Lord Jesus"
Article seen by Mrs Anne Hillyard, widow of an Anglican clergyman, who offered £20,000 to CHS if he would open a home for fatherless boys where they would receive a Christian upbringing.
Perhaps it would be fairer to say that the C19th was a time of great change, in which time many evils were fought against, and many battles won, leaving others unfought, or fought the wrong way. Messrs Marx and Engels come to mind as those who fought the right battle the wrong way...

 

[Tisme]

Re: Another nail in the coffin of a unique culture? re. tisme

I think you are missing the point.

The earlier post was harking back to the 19th C as being a wonderful time and linking that to the fact that the majority of the population believed in god. The fact that you can refer to one or two christian types who did some good ignores the fact that they were fiercely resisted by many more people who were equally devout. It is about as meaningless as somebody referring to Blair's and Bush's christianity and linking that to the horrors of the Iraq War.

On your other point about the provision of education with a strong religious bias I would argue that indoctrinating children in a mythical belief system is anything but a force for good. One of the reasons for the problems in Ireland was that there were effectively 2 separate religiously based education systems. Each force feeding it's own version of "the truth" down the childrens throats.