Another Myth Busted... ICC Not required for Croatia.

[Tranona]

No-one is being dishonest. But innocent people end up getting "inconvenienced" at best. And its not just certificates of competence.

Which is precisely why the advice is always to go to the authoritative body for information - in this cas the RYA which is not only the issuing body, but is also the body responsible for international negotiations on the subject.

The notion that foreign officials take any notice of what is discussed here is laughable. The story of the ICC perfectly illustrates the difficulty in getting international agreement at even the most basic level, but some progress has been made. It will always be the case that there is a lack of clarity and consistency from country to country and in many cases within countries, so sharing experiences here is a useful complement to more official sources, but not a substitute.

 

[RichardS]

All afternoon this thread has shown Tranona as the last poster when Tim and Jim have posted several times since Tranona. The thread appears to be "stuck" on my PC and always sends me back to the first post on page 2.

I'm just posting this to see if it "unjams" it!

Richard

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It's all here ...

http://www.mmpi.hr/UserDocsImages/TABLICA ENGLISHMoU (2) 7_10.pdf

and here ...

http://www.mmpi.hr/default.aspx?id=668

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Sry ... didn't notice tinyurl link was the same one.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Which is precisely why the advice is always to go to the authoritative body for information - in this cas the RYA which is not only the issuing body, but is also the body responsible for international negotiations on the subject.

Errrm, hate to correct you on such a nitty gritty point. But the authoritative body is always the state you're visiting. Correct, of course, that the RYA issues ICCs, but individual nations decide whether they are acceptable. And, err, of course, we're not aware of any places which refuse the ICC, so in this context this is a trivial point. In other contexts, the point is not trivial.

I admire your posts and find them very helpful. Many thanks.

 

[BrianH]

I have been cruising the Adriatic for the 5 years now and last year was the first time I was ask to show my ICC, (twice in the same year). In fact the only paper the authorities are really interested in is the crew list.

Because their prime interest is to clamp down on non-Croatian charter boats, which, since 2005, are no longer allowed to operate in their waters. If the crew list shows frequent changes they suspect the skipper is running a business that they cannot tax.

My Italian marina has plenty of Austrian and German yachts that take paying guests to Croatia but are savvy enough not to change crews there.

 

[EugeneR]

I was surprised to see that one can charter a yacht in Croatia with only a Day Skipper Shorebased Certificate, for example.

In other words, one can charter a yacht without ever having been on one?

 

[Tranona]

I was surprised to see that one can charter a yacht in Croatia with only a Day Skipper Shorebased Certificate, for example.

In other words, one can charter a yacht without ever having been on one?

The requirements are on a bureaucratic list - one can imagine somebody being charged with finding all the qualifications from other states with no understanding of what they actually mean.

That is one advantage of the ICC, at least you know the minimum standard - even if you consider it rather low!

As noted by other posters, and as has been the case in Greece in the past, officials tend only to want to see an official looking piece of paper - hence the printing of bogus certificates, or as in my case on one occasion my Yacht club membership card!

The Croations are at least trying to create some order in an activity where anarchy has been the rule in the past, albeit in the process introducing new anomolies!

 

[RichardS]

I was surprised to see that one can charter a yacht in Croatia with only a Day Skipper Shorebased Certificate, for example.

In other words, one can charter a yacht without ever having been on one?

In practice, it is in the charter companies immediate interests to ensure that you can actually handle the boat which is why they will usually ask for a summary of your practical sailing experience and, if they are not satisfied, will take you out for a quick sail around the bay to check that you know your sails from your sheets. I had to do this this first time I chartered as I only had dinghy experience.

On the other hand, knowledge of ColRegs, SOLAS, good seamanship etc would be more difficult for them to test and even a RYA Day Skipper Shorebased certificate shows that you have knowledge of such matters and are taking the whole thing seriously.

Richard

 

[Tranona]

In practice, it is in the charter companies immediate interests to ensure that you can actually handle the boat which is why they will usually ask for a summary of your practical sailing experience and, if they are not satisfied,

But that is not normally the driver of the need to demonstrate competence. The skipper needs a permit to cruise in Croatia (or to skipper a Greek registered boat in Greece) and evidence of competence is required. Officials need to see the "piece of paper" or as in Croatia put the skipper through their own test.

It was common in the past for charter operators to produce their own certificates modelled on the RYA ones - I have one from about 1998 - to satisfy officials. This is less common now, although Greece, unlike Croatia does not have a specific law identifying what evidence is required. So there is still a degree of variability in respect of the evidence acceptable - from the charter operator vouching for competence to having to report in person to the Port Police with passport and ICC in hand (as has happened to me).

 

[timbartlett]

My old RYA Yachtmaster sufficed first time - but then I decided to get an ICC with a photo on it.

Idle curiosity... why did you get an ICC if you already had a Yachtmaster (which is also on the official list?)

 

[KellysEye]

>For the last few years I've assumed an ICC was required for Croatia...Anyway it's a complete myth, they accept a huge range of alternatives

Given that they say you need a RYA day Skipper (or more) to sail in the UK they clearly don't know what they are talking about. You do need an ICC and a VHF licence.

 

[RichardS]

Idle curiosity... why did you get an ICC if you already had a Yachtmaster (which is also on the official list?)

I'm guessing that this is for the same reason I have thought about the ICC - to avoid any arguments with the non-English-speaking authorities about who the Yachtmaster certificate actually belongs to!

I might contact the RYA to see if they can re-issue my Yachtmaster shorebased certificate with a photo. Has anyone done this?

Richard

 

[KellysEye]

Just a note about my post above. The reason it is called an ICC is because it is an internationally approved certificate. The reason it came into being was (say) Stavros in the Ionian doesn't speak English, Dutch, German, Swiss, French, Italian, Spanish etc, all of whom have different sailing requirements and certificates. Thus he didn't know what the paperwork meant. Now he does as he recognises it. As does the rest of the world where a certificate is required.