Another "marine" rip-off avoided

[Dave_Snelson]

I decided my ickle bow-rider needed some new seats as the old ones had collapsed, y'know, the back-to-back fold flat variety.

Now I live in the North, and not very far from two UK manufacturers called "Master-Trim" and "Fibre-Trim" who are both in Staffs. An hours drive would see me at their factory gates. Now I'm sure these companies are both very fine and can produce quality stuff for boat interiors.....but...

One company wanted £300+VAT per seat, without the box they sit on and folding mechanism and the other wanted £250+VAT per seat without the box but with fold flat facility. So on both counts, I would have to make, or have made, two boxes to accomodate the seats, this is an additional expense to the prices quoted below.

I nearly resigned myself to this hideous expense when I was alerted to a company called WISE. They are an American manufacturer of boat seats and other chandlery.

So the deal is this. All the way from the USA, with fold flat mechanism, with box, all fully assembled and ready to fit for.....



£137 per seat INCLUDING the VAT!!!!

Now come on, who's taking the p!ss here??

WISE products are available from Mailspeed btw, even though they don't feature on the mailspeed web-site.

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[dog]

I agree with you, well worth a little time shopping around. I have recently done a similar thing having existing seats recovered. One quote for re-upholstering 2 bucket helm seats was over £160 per chair- Comfort Afloat in Gosport charged me £70 per chair and now they look like new!

Another useful contact for S/S fixings is Screwfix- they do loads of stainless fixings.
One box containing 500 assorted wood screws was £16. Ok they are'nt 316 grade but are certainly more than adequate for internal fit-out. That box saw me right through an internal re-fit!!

Dog.

 

[tcm]

Not a rip off

This is not a ripoff. It is simple economics of the local area paying higher costs (staff tax, ni, employers tax, corporation tax, council rates) such that small companies with a turnover of under 5million can easily pay 1/2 million before employees pay any tax at all, actual income tax only being 25% of tax take anyway.

Mr snelson has avoided this, and bought from elsewhere, well done to him.

Meanwhile all the people who would make nice cheap things for competitive wages are locked up or deported after being give lots of nice social secutrity benefits. Or, they are in America.

 

[maxtorque]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

I nearly fell foul of same...
A newby to the game of boating but not to being ripped off, I made enquiries about re-upholstering my upper deck panels and seats for my Sealine S240 senator. £1750 for drivers seat, three removable seats, back rests two panels and backrests.
I resigned myself to reviewing it some time in the future because of the costs!
By chance we were having some furniture re-upholstered at home and I asked if they did boats. They said caravans yes but no boats to date.
Their quote for below decks came in at very reasonable rates, but I asked for a joke about doing the upper deck.. Same requirements: £720!! And they are fantastic!

I ve gone one step further and asked Sealine to do the panels in walnut burr. They use aluminium and dip them in chemicals to produce the burr effect before laminating them...waiting for a quote.

If you want re-upholstery steer away from marine specialists go to your high street upholsterer who hasn't been blinded by the idea that all boat owners are loaded!!!

WT

 

[BarryH]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Umm arr.. going to get flamed for this one, but being in the trade of sorts. If you look at vinyl for non marine applications and the kosher stuff you'll se the difference in the long term. Yes you can pick up non marine stuff at £1.50 a mtr, but compare that with the mckoy marine stuff at just over a tenner a mtr. If you compare the two you'll see the difference in the make up of the fabric. Its also UV protected and will handle a lot of the cleaning solvent etc better.

So yes the non marine stuff is cheaper to purchase etc, but in the long run will probably not last as long. It will degrade quiet quickly when exposed to the sun for longperiods and the first sign of this is a herdening of the surface finish then it'll start cracking. At the end of the day none of us, me included, like spending more than we have to!

Also nearly forgot. Um cheapy seats from the states. Yep will be if they're turning them out all day. Production line methods cheaper, H.Ford found that out quiet a while ago. Now take yer average boat seating. You've gotta get in little white van and go and get it. Normally have to grovel around and unscrew it all cos lot of boat owners are lazy gits. Then trundle all the way back to overpriced, rentwise, workshop. Take all the one million and one stainless staples/fixings out without doing too much damamge the the rest of it. Then either take old coverings to bits and use as pattern or make new pattern to cut from. Whack it all back together and trundle back to gits boat and refit it all. Bear in mind this is all a one off thing so a little bespokey type thing. So its nor really a production line type of work thing. Yes you will get MR Highstreet upholstery man to do it, but after he's done one thats slightly curvey and pain in the arse piping all over the place with the proper marine fabrics, I bet he won't do them again. Or if he does the price will go up cos he knows what a pig of a job it will be!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by BarryH on 27/11/2002 23:20 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Not a rip off

Staff tax, employers tax? What are they?

Joe

 

[mtb]

Re: Not a rip off

NO they are all in Lincolnshire and Cambridge, every day more and more violent crime , related to the minority who need to be here for their saftey !!!
Vast area's are no go places unless you want to put your self at risk .
The factorys have constant fight's between gang's of em
Hijacking lorry's in layby's are one of their well practised manouvers.

My son had an appointment at the hospital , guess what full ............
Better shut up now

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
I want a steel ex trawler or tug cheap needing work

 

[tcm]

Re: Not a rip off

You jest! But in case you don't, if you pay say 3 grand in NI per year, your employer pays about the same again. They also pay rates, and other stuff like bleedin expenses and thn IF there's any money left over only then do the poor impoverished employers get any money, sob. Mind, you, they do get all of it. But taxed at 40%.

So worked example:

Company profit before staff = 1000
staff gross salary costs = 200 quid
rates = 25 quid
NI paid by emplyee= 20 quid
empoyee's income tax = say average 20-40%= 60 quid
employer to pay extra NI = 20 quid
remainder of

so, employee left with a miserable 200-60-20 =120 quid
and poor employer left with 1000-200-25-20= 745 quid taxed @33% = 500 quid
whereas gordon brown gets the rest = 380quid which doesn't include emptying the bins on commercial property...

ooh, actually these figs quite accurate: avge tax is 38%

 

[Will_M]

(maxtorque) Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

For that walnut/alu panels, try the phone numbers bellow.


"I ve gone one step further and asked Sealine to do the panels in walnut burr. They use aluminium and dip them in chemicals to produce the burr effect before laminating them...waiting for a quote."


Axon components: 01977 681 781
Taplins: 02380 232 304

 

[Guest]

Re: Not a rip off

Spot on.....

Oh and you should see the snotty letter you get from the council for using the domestic bins !!!!

Oh and if you decide to dispose of "it"( mainly packaging) at the official council "recycling plant" yourself there's a charge for that as well

<rant over>

sorry

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Not a rip off

What???!!!

The damn seats have to travel 3000 miles to get here and are made in an economy comparative to ours.

These aren't Nike trainers made in Vietnam!!

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Thanks Dog for the sensible reply. It seems that others here want to make political debate out of boat refurbishment!!

I had quite forgotten about screwfix - you have just reminded me. Cheers.

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Another brilliant idea - thanks Max

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[EME]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Dave - Were they really. Methinks it was just a series of general points about 'True' cost of Production ( of any items) in UK vs US.


TcM's point was VERY valid and a direct response to your comments.

The price ,he suggests, has nothing to do with 'RIP-OFF' Britain which is always a clear inference that the 'companies' are greedy as you suggest yourself.

While TCM's analogy was derived from a people industry I suspect, the same is true of any industry with high labour input costs ehen comparing UK vs US.

It's not the headline salary , It's the govt-induced cost of employment which creates the high price .... Do not therfore be surprised when same cos do £ for $ pricing when they come here to sell goods.

<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Yeah, take your point. In fact on trips to the US I have found a very generalised rule of thumb that you can get an article for $ over there that costs the same in £ over here.

However... the £720 cost not including the seat boxes in the UK, compared with £272 WITH boxes fitted and imported by container (groupage transport) bears no such reasonable comparison between the two economies.

...and besides, all I was doing was passing on a tip

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[jfm]

Wait, not so fast, Gordon wants some of that £500

That's not all. There's another layer of tax if the company owner wants to get the 500quid out of the company and into his own pocket. About 25%, so another £125 to Gordon Brown thus ensuring he gets the largest slice of the total cake.

 

[maxtorque]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Barry: Spoke to the upholsterers about the UV problem. They rang the manufacturers and they have confirmed that they are designed for outdoors all year round. The Vinyl cost £20.90p/metre so I don't think it's cheapo stuff..do you? The manufacturer stated that all vinyl benefits from vinyl dressing and if applied once every 6 months for boats, will keep it in pristine flexible condition...no hardening/cracking.

Upholsterer I use has machinery to cater for all contours, because they focus on up market jobs such as fancy furniture design and fabrics...don't think they'd last long if they couldn't cater for a few curls and curves do you?

You aren't one of these marine service providers are you by any chance who thinks that the job is harder than it really is and therefore justifies one's charges!!!
Hope not..it is a very sad fact that anyone dabbling in marine ware is getting seriously ripped off big time, and something should be done about it.

I think the more boaters are told about alternatives then the better....

WT

 

[BarryH]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Nope not a 'marine' supplier, and been in the upholstery and interiors game long enough to know what I'm talking about. So they're using the 'spensive stuff. Good. I come across so many seats and things that are covered in the crappy stuff. Curves is a norm on 'polstry. What are they using for the piping, made up stuff cut on the bias or the stuff on the roll.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Not a rip off

Thanks for your reply. No I wasn't jesting, just seeking clarification. In your posting you spoke about "staff tax, ni, employers tax, corporation tax, council rates". I didn't understand what you meant by "staff tax" and "employers tax" as no tax with that description exists in this country. NI does exist, but it looked as if you had created some new taxes. Whilst Gordon Brown may be working on it, he hasn't introduced them yet! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

However, this isn't an Accountancy forum and I hope it never becomes one.

Answer me this though. Why is it that Chandlers are so often being reported on ths forum as being far more expensive than elsewhere? Two examples that I have had recently. An electric pump, £38 in a chandlers £19 elsewhere. A light, £12.5o in a chandlers, £7.50 elsewhere

Those differences cannot be answered by your analysis of the tax system. The Chandlers and retailers have exactly the same cost/tax base to work from. It looks to me like a rip off

Joe

 

[simongoldthorpe]

Re: Another \"marine\" rip-off avoided

Dave

If this Wise outfit is not on Mailspeed's website how did you get hold of them?

I want to buy a new double helm seat for the flybridge.

Yours in anticipation etc