Another interesting encounter with Croatian mooring buoy fee collector

[RichardS]

An unusual encounter with a Croatian mooring buoy fee collector this morning for those who frequent these waters and will surely have experienced similar.

We arrived in Susak after the 25 mile sail from upper Medulin. We had sailed this reefed in less than 3 hours hitting 11 knots, our fastest ever, so you can imagine what the sea state was like in Susak.
We tried twice to pick up a mooring buoy but when the bows of the boat and the buoy are about 2 metres out of phase it was always going to be problematic. I decided to anchor next to the innermost buoy knowing that I was within 200m and would be charged but there is no room to get further away and the only other anchorage on Susak would have been even more exposed.

Once we were settled (relatively speaking as it was a bouncy night even on a cat) I checked on the Government website and could see that although this was clearly an official site it was not on the official website. I've been through this before so knew the drill and had the Web page ready on my tablet in Croatian.

The fee collector arrived about 6pm and said we could not anchor there and would have to move or take a buoy. I gave her the tablet and pointed out the lack of registration (I assume that the buoy owner has to pay for Registration) and therefore we had every right to anchor. However, as I didn't want an argument I said I'd give her half the fee, so 100 Kuna.

She decided to phone her boss and after a few words in Croatian said her boss would accept the 100.

I thought that was the end of it until this morning when the boss turned up just before lunch and asked when we were leaving. I said in a couple of hours after lunch. He looked really disappointed and asked if we would take a mooring buoy for the two hours. I said that I was certainly not going to pay for 2 hours but he replied that he meant for free and he would go over in his dinghy and take our lines.

I said OK, but why all the fuss for the sake of a couple of hours. He, quite disarmingly replied that boats would soon start arriving looking for an overnight stop and if they saw I was anchored they would all want to do the same and he would have the same argument (and loss of income, of course!) with each one.
I smiled and said I understood so he helped with the lines and we parted friends.

Richard

 

[sniffyjenkins]

We Croatians can be a grumpy lot, so I'm delighted this was settled so nicely

Bok!

 

[sailaboutvic]

We Croatians can be a grumpy lot, so I'm delighted this was settled so nicely

Bok!

Grumpy ? Understatement .
We get on ok with most Croatian , but for some reason they do seen to be quite rude in the way they go about things , we use to it now so it isn't a problem but newcomers always comment on it .
Is it to do with the way they are brought up?

 

[sniffyjenkins]

Grumpy ? Understatement .
We get on ok with most Croatian , but for some reason they do seen to be quite rude in the way they go about things , we use to it now so it isn't a problem but newcomers always comment on it .
Is it to do with the way they are brought up?

No idea, I was brought up in the UK, but it's definitely something I've always noticed in a lifetime of visiting friends and relatives there. It's quite a macho culture, which I think has something to do with it. As a woman I get ignored there much more than over here, but that's a different issue. Croats are usually fine once you get past the initial grumpage

 

[RichardS]

Grumpy ? Understatement .
We get on ok with most Croatian , but for some reason they do seen to be quite rude in the way they go about things , we use to it now so it isn't a problem but newcomers always comment on it .
Is it to do with the way they are brought up?

I must say that we very rarely encounter any grumpiness although the officials at Cavtat are not the most friendly. The ones at Umag and Rovinj this year were better, although, like most Med countries, I'm not sure that anyone actually understands the rules.

When we cleared out at Umag I showed one of the Port Policeman my pre-printed crew list and he said it was good but did I have two. I said yes and he said go to the Harbour Master first and give her both. They will keep one and give the other to the Port Police. In fact, the HM stamped both forms and gave them both back. When I went back to the PP and a different chap, he kept both forms.

When I checked in at Rovinj I went to the PP first. He asked if I had 4 copies. I said I had so he stamped all 4 and then asked me to give them to the HM. She stamped them all, kept 2 and gave me 2. I asked her whether I was supposed to go back to the PP with these 2. She said that I should keep them as I would need to present them when I left Croatia.

It's strange that I never had to present stamped crew forms when I've left the country before but never mind.... I was simply happy that the process in each port had taken only a couple of minutes and no-one had asked for Vat / insurance / RYA etc papers as they tend to do at Cavtat.

Richard

 

[sniffyjenkins]

I must say that we very rarely encounter any grumpiness although the officials at Cavtat are not the most friendly. The ones at Umag and Rovinj this year were better, although, like most Med countries, I'm not sure that anyone actually understands the rules.

When we cleared out at Umag I showed one of the Port Policeman my pre-printed crew list and he said it was good but did I have two. I said yes and he said go to the Harbour Master first and give her both. They will keep one and give the other to the Port Police. In fact, the HM stamped both forms and gave them both back. When I went back to the PP and a different chap, he kept both forms.

When I checked in at Rovinj I went to the PP first. He asked if I had 4 copies. I said I had so he stamped all 4 and then asked me to give them to the HM. She stamped them all, kept 2 and gave me 2. I asked her whether I was supposed to go back to the PP with these 2. She said that I should keep them as I would need to present them when I left Croatia.

It's strange that I never had to present stamped crew forms when I've left the country before but never mind.... I was simply happy that the process in each port had taken only a couple of minutes and no-one had asked for Vat / insurance / RYA etc papers as they tend to do at Cavtat.

Richard

Jeez. Suddenly sailing to The Mother Country doesn't seem quite so appealing, what with all the damn paperwork 'n' all. I had no idea...

 

[sailaboutvic]

I must say that we very rarely encounter any grumpiness although the officials at Cavtat are not the most friendly. The ones at Umag and Rovinj this year were better, although, like most Med countries, I'm not sure that anyone actually understands the rules.

When we cleared out at Umag I showed one of the Port Policeman my pre-printed crew list and he said it was good but did I have two. I said yes and he said go to the Harbour Master first and give her both. They will keep one and give the other to the Port Police. In fact, the HM stamped both forms and gave them both back. When I went back to the PP and a different chap, he kept both forms.

When I checked in at Rovinj I went to the PP first. He asked if I had 4 copies. I said I had so he stamped all 4 and then asked me to give them to the HM. She stamped them all, kept 2 and gave me 2. I asked her whether I was supposed to go back to the PP with these 2. She said that I should keep them as I would need to present them when I left Croatia.

It's strange that I never had to present stamped crew forms when I've left the country before but never mind.... I was simply happy that the process in each port had taken only a couple of minutes and no-one had asked for Vat / insurance / RYA etc papers as they tend to do at Cavtat.

Richard

Bit like Greece then Richard , no two PP are the same . Other then when it come to a football match on the TV , then most are the same , ( don't bother me now ) .
See your back in Croatia . We now on Tijat .

 

[BrianH]

Grumpy ? Understatement .
We get on ok with most Croatian , but for some reason they do seen to be quite rude in the way they go about things , we use to it now so it isn't a problem but newcomers always comment on it .
Is it to do with the way they are brought up?

No Vic, I think the old communist culture dies hard, although it is dying as a new generation slowly takes over and the old guard retires and dies, their command system culture dying with them.

It explains why they are so mercenary, being the single European country that demands so many fees to cruise its waters, a relic of the days when foreign currency was so critical to prop up the crumbling command-economy. It explains the demand for formal documentation, ship registration, certificate of competence, certificate of insurance, VHF SRC.

It explains the grumpiness, when a uniform meant power and thugs were promoted into positions of control, the only way a populace could be subdued into submission by a suppressive regime.

I have sailed the Yugoslavian and Croatian coastline for 35 years from my base in Italy - less the four years of civil war, of course - and have witnessed a great change for the better (and some for the worse). But some traits linger on and the initial grumpiness is one ... no doubt that too will die, given time.


.

 

[BrianH]

Once we were settled (relatively speaking as it was a bouncy night even on a cat) I checked on the Government website and could see that although this was clearly an official site it was not on the official website. I've been through this before so knew the drill and had the Web page ready on my tablet in Croatian.

An interesting experience. Presumably there was no official concession granted and theoretically no obligation to pay a local entrepreneur who lays buoys in the bay - but it takes a lot to refuse and I never do. As that particular anchorage/buoyage field is relatively exposed possibly no official agency wanted to be responsible for what could happen there. I can understand the bumpy nature of your night there with the NE wind you had.

I note that you are currently anchored in the southern bay of Ilovik - I do hope you don't feel stalked, I have followed your course with interest since we discussed your Italian lagoon anchorage. I was wondering why you ignored the buoys in the more protected channel - surely the modest cost was not the reason. I only wonder because the hamlet of Ilovik is a favourite of mine and I never miss a chance to eat the delicious calamari dish of Elsa, the proprietress of the Amica restaurant by the steamer pier. I was last there in 2008 so perhaps she has retired now and her son, who worked with her, will have kept up the excellent standard of cuisine.

 

[Triassic]

We spent the whole of June cruising Croatia and have to say that only once did we get into any kind of confrontational issue with mooring fee collectors. On that occasion we had anchored in a small bay which was clearly signed as an anchorage and whilst I was diving on the anchor this small boat with a couple of men in started doing the rounds. They told me anchoring wasn't allowed and I had to take one of their buoys which was only about 50m from me (they had very craftily filled the entire bay with buoys...). Not feeling particularly argumentative that evening I agreed and swam back to the boat while they went off to the various other yachts. Just as I was finishing off mooring to the buoy there was one hell of a crash from behind me and I looked round to see they had driven into the stern of my port float. Now trimarans are not particular robust affairs so I felt pretty justified in giving them a proper broadside in the most colourful English I could muster to which they very rapidly reversed off and started making all kinds of threats about me being "finished in Croatia". We exchanged a few more pleasantries before they motored off empty handed.

As it was only our third night in Croatia we were a bit put out by this experience so I had a chat with a few of the other yachts present who all reassured me these two (both drunk incidentally) were pretty much the exception to the rule and I have to say that over the following weeks this was confirmed. We spent the vast majority of our stay there on the hook and in an entire month I doubt I spent over £150 on mooring fees, best cruising area I've ever been to and definitely going back next year.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We spent the whole of June cruising Croatia and have to say that only once did we get into any kind of confrontational issue with mooring fee collectors. On that occasion we had anchored in a small bay which was clearly signed as an anchorage and whilst I was diving on the anchor this small boat with a couple of men in started doing the rounds. They told me anchoring wasn't allowed and I had to take one of their buoys which was only about 50m from me (they had very craftily filled the entire bay with buoys...). Not feeling particularly argumentative that evening I agreed and swam back to the boat while they went off to the various other yachts. Just as I was finishing off mooring to the buoy there was one hell of a crash from behind me and I looked round to see they had driven into the stern of my port float. Now trimarans are not particular robust affairs so I felt pretty justified in giving them a proper broadside in the most colourful English I could muster to which they very rapidly reversed off and started making all kinds of threats about me being "finished in Croatia". We exchanged a few more pleasantries before they motored off empty handed.

As it was only our third night in Croatia we were a bit put out by this experience so I had a chat with a few of the other yachts present who all reassured me these two (both drunk incidentally) were pretty much the exception to the rule and I have to say that over the following weeks this was confirmed. We spent the vast majority of our stay there on the hook and in an entire month I doubt I spent over £150 on mooring fees, best cruising area I've ever been to and definitely going back next year.

That's a real shame what had happened hope boat not too bad.
I have to say we enjoy Croatia this is our second year here , we been here just over five weeks now , our mooring fees have been zero so far , the last time we was here was in 2014 , went we spend three months and then our mooring fees was 25 euros .
We love the country .
some people want to compare it with Greece all the time only because they know no better .
we found it 100% cleaner then say Greece , fuel this year cheepers at 90cent a lt .
Food about the same but the quality much better and much more to choses from .
Unlike Greece where one island is the same as the next , Croatia has lots of history to it ,
The down side are .
you have to pay to cruise here but it not that big a deal , cheaper then what they plain to bring into Greece .
There are lots of mooring buoy fields but you can find out where they are and keep away , there hundreds / thousands free anchoring bays .
Marinas and town walls are expenses .

We only every had one problem where we was told we can't anchor within the 150 mts of the buoy , so we moved back till we was .
And twice when fly by nights tried to charge us for anchoring in an bay , both time there where told to go away and they did .

Last night we spend it in a bay filled with buoys , we anchored and took lines ashore , no one bothered us .
The other down side is it gets very busy in July and Aug .

I given two talks on Croatia and most of the people have been in touch ,
not one has said they have any really problem to talk off , non has any said they wouldn't return , the only complain that comes up time and time again is from people who checked into Cavata .

 

[Triassic]

I have to say we enjoy Croatia this is our second year here , we been here just over five weeks now , our mooring fees have been zero so far , the last time we was here was in 2014 , went we spend three months and then our mooring fees was 25 euros .

Wow, and I thought we were doing well!

I must say however that much as we enjoyed the opportunity to anchor in the more remote secluded (and free) locations we also very much wanted to visit the various harbours and villages where we were able to enjoy the local hospitality. Most of the time we did this during the day and cleared out before the daily carnage involving charter boats trying to moor/get on the wall began and not once were we charged for these short visits, however on more than one occasion we were enjoying the place so much we decided to stay overnight. When we did this I always found the harbour master really helpful and they invariably managed to tuck us in somewhere in shallow water out of reach of the charter yachts! It was always worth asking the locals.

Our best result was in Sukosan. 110 euro+ per night to stay in the Marina with a mile walk to the village, free to anchor the other side of the harbour by the old ruin with a five minute row or walk to the pub....... No prizes for guessing which option we took.

 

[RichardS]

I note that you are currently anchored in the southern bay of Ilovik - I do hope you don't feel stalked, I have followed your course with interest since we discussed your Italian lagoon anchorage. I was wondering why you ignored the buoys in the more protected channel - surely the modest cost was not the reason. I only wonder because the hamlet of Ilovik is a favourite of mine and I never miss a chance to eat the delicious calamari dish of Elsa, the proprietress of the Amica restaurant by the steamer pier. I was last there in 2008 so perhaps she has retired now and her son, who worked with her, will have kept up the excellent standard of cuisine.

The truth is that after the bouncy night on Susak the family were demanding a "quiet" spot where they could get some sleep and wanted somewhere peaceful where we could stay for a couple of days. Medulin is a lovely safe place but the water is murky and no-one felt like swimming in it and, although we were quite far from the main harbour, those Croatian bands play at an enormous volume so even the night before was a bit noisy until about 3am.

I therefore looked at the chart for a S-facing bay in the direction of "home" which we could tuck into for a couple of nights and spotted Parzine Bay. I then saw the channel which looked good but potentially a bit busy with the large number of mooring buoys. I then fired up Google Maps satellite image and saw there was a small path from the beach at Parzine over to the Ilovik village and it was only about a mile walk. That clinched it - clear water for swimming (and it is crystal clear - we're anchored in 7 metres and I can see the sea slugs on bottom) and a short walk to town (with the torch) last night where we ate at Konoba Oliva. Excellent food but not the cheapest with very friendly service if not the fastest. There was a wedding party or something going on with a sort of masked figure (look a bit like the KKK!) leading the procession in the dark and everyone else playing accordians and singing what Google tells us is the traditional Ilovik song which seems to be mostly "Oj joj joj"

We're going to walk into town again in an hour or two for lunch and the supermarket and have dinner on board tonight.

We stayed 3 nights in the new Marina Santelena in Venice. So new, in fact, that it's not quite finished! Their website says it's 10 minutes from St Marks ....... 10 minutes for Usain Bolt maybe ..... but 20 minutes for a normal human being. However, a marina in centralish Venice at 95 Euro a night with free water and electricity for a 40ft cat is stunning value compared to Croatian prices. Venice itself was stunning as usual. The Nautical Museum was excellent with complete ships on display, the view from the top of the Campanile is matched only by the Eiffel Tower and our afternoon on Murano and the glass museum was lovely. However, as ever, the prices in Venice are astronomic. How about 4 small beers, two small burger and chips and two tuna salads but actually just lettuce with no tuna actually visible to the naked eye in a tiny back-street cafe for 95 Euro!

Luckily we found a great Chinese restaurant near the Ponte Rialto that night and paid about the same for a huge amount of food. We brought the left-overs home in a huge doggy bag and had lunch for 3 of us the next day. A microwave on a boat is a Godsend occasionally!

One final story, we left Venice bang on low tide in the morning to avoid the current and just as we were entering the narrow part of the channel in amongst dozens of small boats with guys fishing (does everyone in Venice have a fishing rod and park in the main channel?) this huge block of flats called the Costa Mediterraneo suddenly appeared over the final peninsula heading directly towards us. SWMBO had kittens but I said not to worry as the fishing boats were all holding station and we were amongst them. Suddenly all the fisherman pulled in their rods, started their outboards and zoomed off to port. I decided that they knew what they were doing and followed them. We got some great photos as the monster passed us to starboard with the passengers happily waving at us as we waved back.

I feel its the case that all sailors should be fortunate enough to, one day in their lives, sail into the home port of one of the old world's greatest ever maritime nations.

Richard

 

[Metabarca]

Just back from Croatia – the first time in five years – and I have to say I have been amazed. For years, I was really put off going by the bolshy Croatian attitude and when I went this month it was with some trepidation. Well, I don't know what's happened but the entire country seems to have gone to charm school. Even at the marina in Zadar where the communist approach to PR had seemed to prevail for yonks, everyone was friendly and helpful.
Worth noting changes to the crew list system: you now prepare a crew list only on entry and exit from the country, which means that you can pick up and drop off crew, guests, visitors anywhere you like within Croatia, without having to go to the harbourmaster.

 

[BrianH]

Okay, didn't know there was a path to the village from the south bay. I have reservations about open anchorages since once anchoring on the south side of the uninhabited island of Skarda (44° 16.7'N - 14° 42.9'E), a perfectly protected small inlet with a ruined chapel at the head, but open to the SE ... all quiet, no bad forecast. At 02:00 I was clawing my way out in a thunderstorm and into the teeth of a SE gale.

I saw you were in the new marina and wondered at what stage it was at. I always stay at the adjacent Sant'Elena Diporto Velico Veneziano, which although normally full of members' boats, usually has one of them away and free to use as a visitor's berth. I love the district, quiet and charming but far enough away from touristy centre and the 'madness of crowds'. If one wants the centre, and of course everyone does at least once in their lives, it is not too far to walk - although there is a local Vaporetto stop in the adjacent Parco Rimembranze.

I feel its the case that all sailors should be fortunate enough to, one day in their lives, sail into the home port of one of the old world's greatest ever maritime nations.

Absolutely, the first time I arrived in my own boat, in 1980, I had a full crew and, to impress, sailed past San Marco, into the Grand canal and up to the Ponte di Accademia before turning back and into the marina on San Giorgio. I don't think that would be allowed now, even if the traffic could be negotiated, which has increased enormously since then.

 

[Triassic]

Jeez. Suddenly sailing to The Mother Country doesn't seem quite so appealing, what with all the damn paperwork 'n' all. I had no idea...

Isn't it weird. I towed my boat down by road and all I had to do was pop into the harbour office and pay my cruising tax (about £70). They didn't want to see any of the other paperwork I had gone to so much trouble to make sure I had with me......

 

[sailaboutvic]

Just back from Croatia – the first time in five years – and I have to say I have been amazed. For years, I was really put off going by the bolshy Croatian attitude and when I went this month it was with some trepidation. Well, I don't know what's happened but the entire country seems to have gone to charm school. Even at the marina in Zadar where the communist approach to PR had seemed to prevail for yonks, everyone was friendly and helpful.
Worth noting changes to the crew list system: you now prepare a crew list only on entry and exit from the country, which means that you can pick up and drop off crew, guests, visitors anywhere you like within Croatia, without having to go to the harbourmaster.

Are you sure about the crew list? , we have people coming in two weeks and I didn't know it had changes

 

[BrianH]

Isn't it weird. I towed my boat down by road and all I had to do was pop into the harbour office and pay my cruising tax (about £70). They didn't want to see any of the other paperwork I had gone to so much trouble to make sure I had with me......

Ah, then you didn't enter by sea in Umag, the northernmost port of entry in Istria. The harbourmaster there once refused me entry because my insurance certificate was not an original - I called the company, AXA in Zürich who spoke directly to him and offered to fax a copy of the original, which he refused "I must have the original in my hand".

In the same office I once witnessed a Brit trying to argue that because the UK does not mandate a certificate of competence he didn't need one - he too was refused entrance ... or alternatively he was offered a Croatian test for €200.

That particular HM has since retired, but all the same, I just pass all documents over without anyone asking so I can't say if they still make such a scene about it any more.

 

[Metabarca]

All was sweetness and light this month in Umago, They asked to see my certificate of competence and the boat papers (Volvo engine certificate and the private bill of sale for the boat between me and the previous owner).
Yes, Sailaboutvic, I can confirm the crew list change. I asked the harbourmaster in Zara twice in English and once in Italian to be quite sure we were understanding each other, and when I left Croatia via Imago (two days ago), the girl there confirmed. I simply crossed out the crew member who had left ship in Zara and added the three new ones who got on in Zara and were leaving Croatia with me on board. No problems.
But yes, they will always want to see some form of certificate of competence. The Croatian licence is, of course, a scam to make money. I did it to avoid problems. This was the test:
chart on table: "what is this?"
"A submarine cable" (then a couple more equally banal questions).
"What is the bora?"
"zzz"
"Do you know how to plot a route" (But the examiner got scared when I pushed aside his set squares and pulled out a Portland Plotter, so I never got to show him...).
And that made me a competent skipper! (and €200 poorer).

 

[Metabarca]

I was forgetting: Škarda now has mooring buoys in that south-facing bay, with lines leading shoreward; there are about 20 of them. The ruined chapel is now no more: it's now a summer home and the owner, who collects the fees (about €18 for a 9.75 m boat) can also cook dinner, served at the water's edge. His speciality is octopus with potatoes in the peka. I've left the phone number on board but I'll post it as soon as I can.