Another interesting encounter with Croatian mooring buoy fee collector
- Thread starter RichardS
- Start date
BrianH
Well-Known Member
That's fascinating, Please do let me have that number as I think I really must return to bury the lasting impression of that awful night, the eerie ruin illuminated by flashes of lightening, the waves pounding in driven by the strong onshore wind and a narrow entrance to navigate. It was one of a series of exciting nautical events that finally convinced my wife to stick to gardening and let me loose alone for the summer.
sniffyjenkins
Well-Known Member
Mmm, that octopus dish, hobotnica ispod peke, is one of my favourites. My non-grumpy devoutly-communist Croatian mum used to make
crisjones
Well-Known Member
Just been into Susak and had a similar experience to Richard!!
We anchored well clear of the buoys, over 220m away in fact, along with another cat and a mono (both charter), there were 4 or 5 boats on the buoys and this was early afternoon.
After about 30mins a small boat comes out of the harbour with 2 guys and a girlfiend on board - they tell the charter boats it is illegal to anchor and they must move, they both raised anchor and moved.
He gave me the same story and when I asked for an explanation he said the no anchoring was to protect the special mussels that live in the bay and we must be 300m away - I told him the law is now 150m from his buoys and we were at least 200m. He continued to insist it was illegal to anchor where we were so I asked him how long the law had been in place prohibiting anchoring, he replied it was 3 years. I then told him that the Google Earth view of Susak shows at least 20 boats anchored where we were in July last year so how did that happen?? He now started getting a bit angrier and threatened to call the Police - I told him to go ahead and call them and said if the Police ask us to move then we will move but until then we were staying anchored.
Finally he said we could go on the buoys for free for a couple of hours and he was only doing his job. I still refused to move and he became even angrier and abusive before heading back to harbour.
I could see him talking to the Policeman on the Police launch but his body language indicated that he was not remotely interested, he certainly did not come out to see or us even try to call us on VHF which would have been very easy.
Clearly the same reasons as Richard gave still apply, ie they do not want boats anchored because that will encourage others to anchor rather than use the buoys - probably even more reason at the moment with light S winds meaning Susak is a lovely sheltered place and likely to get a few more boats than normal weather allows.
Obviously the fee collectors are getting a bit more creative with their reasons and excuses but they still have no authority to prevent you anchoring provided you are at least 150m away from the buoys. Even funnier was the fact that his mate and girlfriend came back out in the little boat and dropped anchor in the bay about 150m away from us to go swimming and sunbathing - even though it is illegal to anchor???
Anyway we stayed for a couple of hours and then moved a mile along the N coast to Uvala Baldarka, a small cove with nice sandy bottom and 3-5m depths for anchoring and perfect shelter from the light S winds forecast overnight. At no time did the Police or Harbourmaster give any indication of getting involved, I will try and ask a nearby Harbour Office if there are any official restrictions in Susak.
I would guess that the Restaurants in Susak must be less than impressed with these scare tactics as all it is likely to do is scare away potential customers. I wonder what he does in July and Aug if all his buoys are already taken - does he continue to tell boats they can't anchor?
We anchored well clear of the buoys, over 220m away in fact, along with another cat and a mono (both charter), there were 4 or 5 boats on the buoys and this was early afternoon.
After about 30mins a small boat comes out of the harbour with 2 guys and a girlfiend on board - they tell the charter boats it is illegal to anchor and they must move, they both raised anchor and moved.
He gave me the same story and when I asked for an explanation he said the no anchoring was to protect the special mussels that live in the bay and we must be 300m away - I told him the law is now 150m from his buoys and we were at least 200m. He continued to insist it was illegal to anchor where we were so I asked him how long the law had been in place prohibiting anchoring, he replied it was 3 years. I then told him that the Google Earth view of Susak shows at least 20 boats anchored where we were in July last year so how did that happen?? He now started getting a bit angrier and threatened to call the Police - I told him to go ahead and call them and said if the Police ask us to move then we will move but until then we were staying anchored.
Finally he said we could go on the buoys for free for a couple of hours and he was only doing his job. I still refused to move and he became even angrier and abusive before heading back to harbour.
I could see him talking to the Policeman on the Police launch but his body language indicated that he was not remotely interested, he certainly did not come out to see or us even try to call us on VHF which would have been very easy.
Clearly the same reasons as Richard gave still apply, ie they do not want boats anchored because that will encourage others to anchor rather than use the buoys - probably even more reason at the moment with light S winds meaning Susak is a lovely sheltered place and likely to get a few more boats than normal weather allows.
Obviously the fee collectors are getting a bit more creative with their reasons and excuses but they still have no authority to prevent you anchoring provided you are at least 150m away from the buoys. Even funnier was the fact that his mate and girlfriend came back out in the little boat and dropped anchor in the bay about 150m away from us to go swimming and sunbathing - even though it is illegal to anchor???
Anyway we stayed for a couple of hours and then moved a mile along the N coast to Uvala Baldarka, a small cove with nice sandy bottom and 3-5m depths for anchoring and perfect shelter from the light S winds forecast overnight. At no time did the Police or Harbourmaster give any indication of getting involved, I will try and ask a nearby Harbour Office if there are any official restrictions in Susak.
I would guess that the Restaurants in Susak must be less than impressed with these scare tactics as all it is likely to do is scare away potential customers. I wonder what he does in July and Aug if all his buoys are already taken - does he continue to tell boats they can't anchor?
RichardS
N/A
The strange thing is that the Official Croatian mooring concession website https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/v...mbed&ie=UTF8&mid=1u16M7Iy_rxTx2E3oyLA9dEGCTdY still shows Uvala Bok (Susak) as having no mooring concession but the new Government phone/tablet app does show the moorings in the correct location and says 30 buoys at 15 Kuna/metre.
There are, from my recollection, two buoys per mooring, bow and stern, so it's actually 15 moorings, I guess.
Perhaps the website has now been abandoned and the app will be the only valid reference going forward?
In our experience, if all the mooring buoys are taken and you anchor anywhere near the buoys you will be allowed to anchor but will be asked to pay the normal buoy mooring fee. I believe that this is actually the correct procedure if you are within the 150 metre zone but the usually the collector will accept half-fee because otherwise you might just move on. Of course, as you found, outside the 150m zone they will still expect payment unless you are around a headland and clearly in a different bay. You can legally refuse to pay although I usually offer 50% rather than suffer the aggro. :ambivalence:
Richard
There are, from my recollection, two buoys per mooring, bow and stern, so it's actually 15 moorings, I guess.
Perhaps the website has now been abandoned and the app will be the only valid reference going forward?
In our experience, if all the mooring buoys are taken and you anchor anywhere near the buoys you will be allowed to anchor but will be asked to pay the normal buoy mooring fee. I believe that this is actually the correct procedure if you are within the 150 metre zone but the usually the collector will accept half-fee because otherwise you might just move on. Of course, as you found, outside the 150m zone they will still expect payment unless you are around a headland and clearly in a different bay. You can legally refuse to pay although I usually offer 50% rather than suffer the aggro. :ambivalence:
Richard
Last edited:
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I have never been to Croatia but my Slovak and Czech friends holiday there and the language is not a problem for them as it has a Slavic base.
The first time I visited Czechoslovakia-1985-I found the people to be really friendly.
Because of the language they did not sound friendly!
For example, with my limited Czech, I ask a simple question expecting an answer yes and the reply would be " No, No, No."
It seemed very rude and confrontational. It also happened a lot.
As my Czech improved I found that as the Czech for " Yes " is " Ano ". The slang/abreviation for yes comes out as "No "!
It, as with most Slavic based languages, is harsh and foreign to our ears.
I suspect Croat is the same. Also, the use of please and thank you in the Slavic based ex communist world is not so common as in England. In my experience anyway.
So, as in every other place I have travelled to in this world, expect the natives to be friendly, but be on your guard against being ripped off and taken advantage of.
Bottom line, its their country, their rules.
One other thing if you drink Slivovice - *Pozor!
*Pozor = Danger...........................
The first time I visited Czechoslovakia-1985-I found the people to be really friendly.
Because of the language they did not sound friendly!
For example, with my limited Czech, I ask a simple question expecting an answer yes and the reply would be " No, No, No."
It seemed very rude and confrontational. It also happened a lot.
As my Czech improved I found that as the Czech for " Yes " is " Ano ". The slang/abreviation for yes comes out as "No "!
It, as with most Slavic based languages, is harsh and foreign to our ears.
I suspect Croat is the same. Also, the use of please and thank you in the Slavic based ex communist world is not so common as in England. In my experience anyway.
So, as in every other place I have travelled to in this world, expect the natives to be friendly, but be on your guard against being ripped off and taken advantage of.
Bottom line, its their country, their rules.
One other thing if you drink Slivovice - *Pozor!
*Pozor = Danger...........................
crisjones
Well-Known Member
Hi Richard,
Just to be clear - we were only told it was not allowed to anchor, there was no mention of him trying to collect a mooring fee for anchoring.
As you say, more than 150m away from the buoys they have no authority to charge for anchoring and I would certainly have refused any demand for payment but in this case there was no mention of any payments.
There are some areas where anchoring is chargeable even more than 150m away from buoys and these are generally inside harbour limits (Vela Luka on Korcula is one place where anchoring charges extend a long way) or inside National Parks and Nature Parks, there may be some other examples also. However the general rule for the normal mooring buoy concession areas is 150m away means no anchoring charge.
Richard - I am not questioning your knowledge of Croatian laws and customs since I know you have spent a long time in Croatian waters, I am just pointing out the general rules for everyone else's benefit. Obviously offering to pay a portion of the fee is a good way to avoid hassle and confrontation but if these fee collectors applied the rules correctly instead of making up "laws" to suit themselves then there would be no need for hassle and confrontation.
Just to be clear - we were only told it was not allowed to anchor, there was no mention of him trying to collect a mooring fee for anchoring.
As you say, more than 150m away from the buoys they have no authority to charge for anchoring and I would certainly have refused any demand for payment but in this case there was no mention of any payments.
There are some areas where anchoring is chargeable even more than 150m away from buoys and these are generally inside harbour limits (Vela Luka on Korcula is one place where anchoring charges extend a long way) or inside National Parks and Nature Parks, there may be some other examples also. However the general rule for the normal mooring buoy concession areas is 150m away means no anchoring charge.
Richard - I am not questioning your knowledge of Croatian laws and customs since I know you have spent a long time in Croatian waters, I am just pointing out the general rules for everyone else's benefit. Obviously offering to pay a portion of the fee is a good way to avoid hassle and confrontation but if these fee collectors applied the rules correctly instead of making up "laws" to suit themselves then there would be no need for hassle and confrontation.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I've just returned from a Venice to Trogir/Split trip, my second through Croatian waters. My experience is that the cruising is good, some of the islands and anchorages are quite stunning and the people are warm, friendly and welcoming unless they are employed by the government! They seem to be unnecessarily officious and leave me little desire to return.
Marina charges are eyewateringly expensive and mooring costs seem to be a bit of a lottery. Ours varied from 120 Kuna (last week) to Euro 60 (last September) for the use of an overnight buoy.
On our journey south we did not stay at Sousak but the near Island to the east of Mali Losinj. We left through the road bridge channel the following morning. The Adriatic Crusing Guide did not show a minimum depth and out gauge showed 2.1m as we transited the 7m (estimate) wide channel. Our draft is 2.1m so it was an uncomfortable few moments.
The restaraunts do like to serve free snaps with a meal. All thoughts of officialdom seemed to fade shortly thereafter!
Marina charges are eyewateringly expensive and mooring costs seem to be a bit of a lottery. Ours varied from 120 Kuna (last week) to Euro 60 (last September) for the use of an overnight buoy.
On our journey south we did not stay at Sousak but the near Island to the east of Mali Losinj. We left through the road bridge channel the following morning. The Adriatic Crusing Guide did not show a minimum depth and out gauge showed 2.1m as we transited the 7m (estimate) wide channel. Our draft is 2.1m so it was an uncomfortable few moments.
The restaraunts do like to serve free snaps with a meal. All thoughts of officialdom seemed to fade shortly thereafter!
RichardS
N/A
I think you might have mis-read my post Cris .... or I've expressed myself badly, as I'm agreeing with you. I've never heard the "You're not allowed to anchor for ecological reasons" gambit outside of a National Park but nothing surprises me. :nonchalance:
I fully agree with your interpretation of the rules and was only answering your question about what usually happens if you anchor within the 150m limit when all the buoys are taken.
Richard
crisjones
Well-Known Member
Hi Richard,
Bit of a mis-understanding all round methinks
My rhetorical question about what he would do when all the buoys were full was not intended to include the 150m zone although I did not make that clear - I was merely wondering if he would still tell boats it was illegal to anchor because of the "special mussels" when all his buoys were full - I suspect he would not care at all??
Obviously these fee collectors generally deal with charter boats who will almost always do as they are told or pay up, us liveaboard cruisers are a bit less inclined to believe everything they try to tell us.
I have no problem with the rules and would pay if I had to anchor inside the 150m zone, conversely I do not expect to be hassled when I am legally anchored outside the zone, however there are people everywhere who will try to push the boundaries for their own benefit.
We have had nothing but friendly encounters with Croatian officials and people in general over the last few weeks and we are enjoying the country, hopefully this type of encounter will be very much in the minority.
Maybe we will get a chance to meet up with you later in the year when we head back south.
Chris
Bit of a mis-understanding all round methinks
My rhetorical question about what he would do when all the buoys were full was not intended to include the 150m zone although I did not make that clear - I was merely wondering if he would still tell boats it was illegal to anchor because of the "special mussels" when all his buoys were full - I suspect he would not care at all??
Obviously these fee collectors generally deal with charter boats who will almost always do as they are told or pay up, us liveaboard cruisers are a bit less inclined to believe everything they try to tell us.
I have no problem with the rules and would pay if I had to anchor inside the 150m zone, conversely I do not expect to be hassled when I am legally anchored outside the zone, however there are people everywhere who will try to push the boundaries for their own benefit.
We have had nothing but friendly encounters with Croatian officials and people in general over the last few weeks and we are enjoying the country, hopefully this type of encounter will be very much in the minority.
Maybe we will get a chance to meet up with you later in the year when we head back south.
Chris
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
Apart from it sounds as though the scenery is great I don't think I've read anything here that makes me want to go anywhere near the place!
Dockhead
Well-Known Member
Jeez. Suddenly sailing to The Mother Country doesn't seem quite so appealing, what with all the damn paperwork 'n' all. I had no idea...
Croatians don't have a monopoly on bureaucracy, not by a long shot! Try sailing in Russian waters sometime!
We had almost the identical story in Vyborg some years ago. Fortunately the customs guys were extremely cheerful, and even opened up their office for us in order to let us use their printer to make more copies of the crew list
I'll never neglect the "number of copies" issue again!
I've done some sailing in your "mother country" as well; I highly recommend it. Absolutely gorgeous place!
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
+1. They can keep it. I don't go sailing to increase my blood pressure.
Sorry Croatia
Birvidik_Bob
Well-Known Member
We devised a secret weapon:
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/birvidik/281592
Then:
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/birvidik/283926
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/birvidik/281592
Then:
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/birvidik/283926
Last edited:
RichardS
N/A
That made me smile Bob. OK, it's exaggerated for comic effect but there's nothing in there that hasn't actually happened to us as least once. :ambivalence:
The"services" are interesting because the fee collectors have to offer rubbish collection by law so you can always get that but when you call it "rubbish" you get very some strange looks .... so stick with "garbage". Perhaps "rubbish" sounds like something rude in Croatia.
If the buoys have been laid by a restaurant owner, which is common in the more isolated bays, and you offer to eat at the restaurant, you will usually get a free mooring or a discount off the meal. If you were intending to eat out anyway, it's a no-brainer.
Being friendly certainly helps. The last time were tied up to a buoy in Stoncica on Vis, which used to be one of our favourite anchorages until the mooring buoy pox suddenly appeared, the young fee collector motored around the headland just as I was just finishing my beer and trying to muster the enthusiam to take the dinghy over to the sole restaurant to book a table for that night (it's very good and can get busy with yotties and people coming over from Vis town) so when the chap came alongside I asked whether we could moor for free if we ate at the restaurant. He explained that the buoys were actually owned by Vis harbour authority (which is why he came around the headland ... doh!) but he would be happy to book us a table. He knew the boat name so it was just how many diners and what time.
When we dinghied over at 7:30 our table was waiting for us.
Richard
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
He explained that the buoys were actually owned by Vis harbour authority (which is why he came around the headland ... doh!) but he would be happy to book us a table. He knew the boat name so it was just how many diners and what time.
When we dinghied over at 7:30 our table was waiting for us.
Richard
but how much was the mooring?!
The whole thing just sounds like hassle
RichardS
N/A
It's usually £1.50 to £2.00 a metre whereever you go, so around £20 a night for us, although over a 30 day cruise we only use mooring buoys for perhaps 5 nights so not that great an additional cost. If we used marinas, which we don't, that would cover 1 night!
It can be hassle which I would rather not have .... but you have to balance that against guaranteed endless blue sky and sunshine, warm sea (up to 28 degrees) and stunning scenery.
Richard
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
When it comes to Croatia Richard the man , he been there for many years.
All I will say is , we have spend Six months in Croatia over two seasons , we anchored everywhere and only one time we ended up in a row with a guy who tried to Charge us for anchoring . We anchored everywhere for free .
There really no hassle , we love Croatia and although you have to pay for a permit it much nicer then Greece , with very clear seas , good fresh food at very good prices and great winds to sail ,
we would be there now if we wasn't trying to sell our boat .
Halo
Well-Known Member
I noticed that many of the yachts in Croatia are large. This must put a big load on the moorings. If you have chartered and one of those mooring buoys fails in a blow leading to damage who will pay the charter company excess fees ? Do the Croatian government make the mooring landlords carry insurance and make sure the buoys are inspected and maintained?
RichardS
N/A
I'm guessing that the answer to both your questions is yes because all mooring fields have to be registered with the Government and appear on the official listing. If they're not on the listing then you don't have to pay, although there will be an argument. :ambivalence:
However, like most Med countries, things like this are not well organised so I would not assume that inspection and maintenance is that rigorous, although apart from one incident where we woke up after a rough night to find that the buoy was on a neaby beach (Saplunara Bay, Mljet Island) we've never had a problem.
Richard
However, like most Med countries, things like this are not well organised so I would not assume that inspection and maintenance is that rigorous, although apart from one incident where we woke up after a rough night to find that the buoy was on a neaby beach (Saplunara Bay, Mljet Island) we've never had a problem.
Richard