Another anchor

N

Neeves

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 Nov 2011
Messages
14,067
Location
Sydney, Australia.
Visit site
It was suggested, in fact I was interrogated, that because I have started a couple of threads on Viking anchor I might have some interest in the anchor. Of course I have an interest - I study anchors - any anchor. Interestingly though I have also started a couple of threads on Lewmar LFX and the Epsilon - no-one questioned my motives.

Now I wonder who, originally did point the finger, and whether anyone will point the finger, again


This has been sent to me by 3 people, overnight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZhha6FAueY&feature=player_embedded

And NO - I have no interest in Mantus either - nor any other anchor.

I was insulted that the question was asked and did wonder who raised the issue - what motive did they have? I sometimes wonder if some do not like specific debate.

I am interested that people have as much exposure to anchors, good or bad, that new developments are aired and obvious inconsistencies underlined. I would like these inconsistencies to be answered - so that an honest picture can be developed - if inconsistencies are not answered I wish others were also interrogated as to their motives

Sorry Mr Mantus - but your release came at time most timely - to provide the basis for yet another rant.

But enjoy the video.

Jonathan
 
Last edited:
I can only say that I appreciate your knowledge on anchors.
I have found certain members here to be very 'insecure' to put it politely and also pun intended.

You my friend have helped me on the anchor thread that I've posted and by the way I just got 43mtrs of 8mm chain today from a very nice man who changed his windlass. I'll probably use 20mtrs of it on the main anchor in the anchor locker then ten meters each on on the other 2 spare - on the 24ft boat. 43mtrs is too heavy for the locker and the water tank is there too. I'm going to go for the Delta or a CQR - probably both. I have a small CQR and a small grapnel as backups.


Name and shame who has taken the time to go out of their way to troll. YBW is not as friendly a place as it used to be.

Kind regards
Skip
 
Last edited:
You are both most generous - and not the reaction I expected, nor was angling for.

I'd like to elaborate - but its not part of my presbyterian (note its a small 'p') education. I was incensed - and possibly that education slipped a tad

I'd rather the focus was on engendering relaxation at anchor - now maybe I should start a thread on which is the best malt whisky (after anchoring). I am very willing to learn.

Jonathan
 
Returning to the thread

The design appears to show, along with Vulcan (and maybe including, yet to be released, Lewmar's Epsilon) that our fascination with roll bars is increasingly being questioned. I confess some bias (a roll bar anchor will not fit our bow roller) - but Spade, Ultra, Excel have no roll bar - and I think fit on any bow roller.

Jonathan
 
The statement in the video 'sets every time' seems to leave them open to some criticism. I feel sure I could take them to an anchorage where its setting might be quite difficult, along with many other designs.
 
vyv_cox said:
The statement in the video 'sets every time' seems to leave them open to some criticism. I feel sure I could take them to an anchorage where its setting might be quite difficult, along with many other designs.
Click to expand...

I do wish anchor companies would stop making these exaggerated claims.

It will be interesting to see how the M2 compares to other concave non roll bar anchors such as Spade, Vulcan, Ultra, Manson Boss etc and the also new Epsilon (the latter can be fitted with a roll bar if you have the room).

Interesting times :).
 
Neeves said:
It was suggested, in fact I was interrogated, that because I have started a couple of threads on Viking anchor I might have some interest in the anchor. Of course I have an interest - I study anchors - any anchor. Interestingly though I have also started a couple of threads on Lewmar LFX and the Epsilon - no-one questioned my motives.

Now I wonder who, originally did point the finger, and whether anyone will point the finger, again

This has been sent to me by 3 people, overnight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZhha6FAueY&feature=player_embedded

But enjoy the video.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the "finger pointing" stuff has got to do with the video but I did look at the video. Apart from the spelling mistakes, which really irritate me, the performance of the anchor in the video is very uninspiring. My Rocna sets in a metre or two whereas that Mantus would have me up the beach. :ambivalence:

Richard
 
I appreciate the effort you go to too ... it's always educational to read any threads where there are a good variety of data and opinions because the devil is always in the detail and it makes you think.

My impression of the video is that it is a marketing video which only shows performance in sand, no dense weed, no jagged rock or coral either.

Some similar interesting (to me) videos ...

https://www.youtube.com/user/flygoodwin/videos
 
RichardS said:
I'm not sure what the "finger pointing" stuff has got to do with the video but I did look at the video. Apart from the spelling mistakes, which really irritate me, the performance of the anchor in the video is very uninspiring. My Rocna sets in a metre or two whereas that Mantus would have me up the beach. :ambivalence:

Richard
Click to expand...

I thought the same. I have countless photos of my Rocna setting in sand in less than its own length.
 
Going back to the original Mantus and roll bar.

Here's a screengrab of the Mantus anchor supplied to Delos (Super Maramu 53). Massive!

Delos%20Mantus%20anchor.tiff
 
Richard and Vyv,

I admire anyone who sticks their neck out having spent blood, sweat, tears and oodles of money to develop an anchor - and then spends a bit more making an underwater video

This is a marketing video (which I can admire - they got all the duck in a row - and show the anchor in its best light). They presumably chose the seabed and they ensured, as well as you can when setting an anchor, that everything is perfect. This is as good as it gets.

I have not chosen this video at random - nor with any ulterior motive. It is the only video of the new Mantus anchor - it was sent to me by Mantus - I received it this morning, I thought to share (it was not sent to me in confidence - nor with any restrictions).

Mantus think this performance is acceptable.

You both come to the same conclusion - but why might this happen? - what characteristic of the design, or the seabed, might lead to that effect? you detect. As you say - most modern anchors set in a metre (or - for 'our' size - a shank length) and then lock up (don't move).

So - should Mantus go back to the drawing board - or do you have it wrong? Is there some nuance you have missed

Jonathan
 
But Jonathan, will it pick up a nice lump of heavy metal and then grip it to the extend that you have to use a club hammer to get it to release it , that's the question , :)
I love it when videos are made to show a anchor setting in perfect sea bed .
Shame that most of us don't have the opportunity to have a perfect sea bad every time we anchor .
 
Last edited:
sailaboutvic said:
.
Shame that most of us don't have the opportunity to have a perfect sea bad every time we anchor .
Click to expand...
Life is much better these days though with web access to various magazine tests to criticise plus the mass of work put up for free but the likes of panope.. https://www.youtube.com/user/flygoodwin
And noelex - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html
Must be thousands of hours of work given awy for free there :cool: we're so much better off these days for better info in so many areas of cruising, still need to wade through plenty of Web opinions though :)
 
GHA,

I'm glad you brought that up - but I did not dare mention it (again).

Noelex thread, free information full of opinion. Can you point me to the part where he says that unique among anchors the (original) Mantus has a fluke/seabed angle - consistently - of 16 degrees but other 2nd Generation anchor have an angle of 30 degrees - and where he then explains why this is advantageous. The thread is constantly quoted and one to take note of and features the Mantus -prominently - yet this characteristic is glossed over - no-one questions. Now Noelex i the expert and I might have it wrong - and I'm very happy to accept I am wrong and have tried to encourage Noelex to explain - without success

I wonder how many people invested in a Mantus anchor (based on the continually quoted thread) - unappreciative of the low setting angle. My guess (actually tests) of anchors with low setting angles (and answering my own question) see posts above from Richard and Vyv.

Simple geometry - imagine a fluke addressing the seabed at 16 degrees and one at 30 degrees - which one travels furthest before it locks up. Is this a characteristic that anyone familiar with their anchor might mention or would they ignore it. If it i advantageous - why not explain.

How many more people will be directed to a thread omitting this very simple salient fact - that Richard says would put him on the beach (and in this video - the M2 seem to have better angle, of around 23 degrees but not as good as a Rocna, Ultra nor Spade at 30 degrees ).

Don't blame me - Richard and Vyv picked it out - I did not prompt them.

To tweak the M2 design, a (relatively) easy fix.

But I do question why Mantus have not picked it up - Richard and Vyv picked it up immediately - no wonder (as Tradewind points out) - people use huge anchors of the original design.

The danger is - someone will buy one, the Mantus, the same size as a recommended Rocna or Spade - and then find themselves on the beach and/or that it has the same hold as similarly sized Delta. The M2 will be better having a higher angle but not as good a a Ultra, Rocna nor Spade (as might be illustrated by the setting distance).

I have no argument with Mantus, they are very innovative and people buy their product on the minimal of information - buyer beware. But good marketing - of which that link is a part (being continually quoted). There is no holding capacity data (and I know of no other quantitative basis on which to buy - yes - buyer beware). But I wish people would not offer links that encourage, by omission.

Jonathan
 
Last edited:
Just one of many but it illustrates the point fairly well. A nice sandy seabed, so comparable with the one in the video. It looks like the anchor landed on its side, rolled upright and set in just about its own length. I don't bother taking many such shots these days as their appearance rarely varies. this one three seasons ago at the south end of Paros in the Cyclades.

 
Thanks for posting, Vyv. I love looking at photos of anchors.

I was amazed noticing how quickly our Rocna set when we first purchased the anchor.

Interestingly, when changing to the same sized Mantus (I guess it should be called the M1 now:)) it set slightly quicker. So Mantus are familiar with anchors that set quickly.

However, all the roll bar anchors set in a short distance. This is one reason I like them so much (if they fit your bow roller). The steel Spade setting distance is little longer than the Rocna, although there is not a big difference. This shows it is possible to have a non roll bar that sets at least moderately rapidly.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments that suggest the setting distance shown in the video of the M2 was longer than I would have expected.

Interesting times :).

In the photo below of our Mantus you can see the marks in the sand where the anchor first dropped. I have seen this many times, but it is amazing to see an anchor dig in so quickly.

4h5Ve82.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top