Another anchor

Re: Delos Mantus anchor again

I started this thread as I was sent the following link to a Youtube vid on Mantus M2, their new anchor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZhha6FAueY&feature=player_embedded

I included the link in my opening post.

RichardS made this observation, and the comment was echoed by others:

‘the performance of the anchor in the video is very uninspiring. My Rocna sets in a metre or two whereas that Mantus would have me up the beach.’

It was also the factor I noticed and actually wondered if the anchor actually ‘locked up’ or might it still have crept forward if the video had been longer.

Over on Cruisers Forum someone has been looking for any member’s feed back on this new anchor.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/any-experience-with-the-mantus-m2-223839.html

Mantus Anchors themselves have the final post, currently, post No 5 - in which they seem to suggest that the new anchor sets more quickly than the original Mantus?


Buyer beware - I have noticed that after the brouhaha in the past over holding capacity (the only measure we have of anchor performance) that anchors are now being sold (and thus bought by gullible, ?, punters) with no data, nor robust comparisons with other established anchors.

If I interpret the video and Mantus’ comments correctly - if you want a roll bar anchor, look to Rocna or Supreme - or you may find yourself ‘up the beach’. And wait till there is some reliable feedback before buying a newly introduced anchor - let others stick their necks out.

Jonathan
 
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vyv_cox said:
Just one of many but it illustrates the point fairly well. A nice sandy seabed, so comparable with the one in the video. It looks like the anchor landed on its side, rolled upright and set in just about its own length. I don't bother taking many such shots these days as their appearance rarely varies. this one three seasons ago at the south end of Paros in the Cyclades.
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I like the wee short locator float. I've been snorkeling to check my anchor but it gets lost in seagrass sometimes.
 
dgadee said:
I like the wee short locator float. I've been snorkeling to check my anchor but it gets lost in seagrass sometimes.
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This was adopted as a result of experience painfully gained. In 2005 we anchored at San Antonio in Ibiza. The seabed was weedy but in the prevailing and forecast F3 we had no concerns. Sitting in the cockpit we heard a bang and the boat began drifting backwards. On hauling the chain in we found that the swivel connector had broken, almost certainly due to stress corrosion. Its photo is the second one down on http://coxeng.co.uk/metallurgy/stress-corrosion-cracking/ and started me on the process of testing swivels and shackles. Once our alternative anchor was set in what I thought was our original position I began searching for our anchor. The depth of weed was such that I did not find it. Next morning I managed to engage a sport diver who found it very quickly for the price of a €30 and a couple of beers. Ever since then my anchor has been equipped with a float. Most Med sailors seem to do the same.
 
vyv_cox said:
Ever since then my anchor has been equipped with a float. Most Med sailors seem to do the same.
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We had same problem on San Antonio. I used to use a surface buoy but got it around the prop. Will go for this technique, though.
 
This is what Charles Reed said of his Mantus, the M1, well over a year ago on a thread here on YBW.

Quote

"I finally replaced the anchor with a 25kg Mantus (I suspect the others such as the Spade, Rocna and Ultra are indistinguishable in performance if not in price). My kedges are a Delta, SWMF Danforth and a Fortress.
The Mantus sets in about 3m reverse, digs into any soft substrate and resets easily. Its good for 42 knots constant, on a 5:1 scope. In soft substrates it only just beats the Danforth, but resets better. "

end quote

Which is consistent with an anchor setting shallow, about 3 times more setting distance than an equivalent Rocna, Spade or Excel and actually better than the video of the M2, though we don't know the seabed being used, in the video nor Charles', nor how aggressive they are with setting tension.

Mantus from their post on CF seem to think this performance (and that of their M2) is acceptable (it is a promotional video - so I assume they think it acceptable).

Jonathan
 
The Mantus roll bar anchor (M1) sets extremely rapidly. This is one of the aspects that I particuarly like about the design. When switching from the Rocna to an identically sized Mantus, the slightly reduced setting distance was quite apparent. The Rocna itself has a remarkably short setting distance so the Mantus (M1) sets very rapidly.

If Mantus have improved or even equaled this aspect with M2 that would be fantastic, but I have a healthy skepticism of comments made by anchor manufacturers, so we will have to wait and see.

I have published many photos of this. Here is a typical example. The red arrow shows the mark in the sand where the Mantus landed and the green arrow shows the point where it rolled over on its side to begin setting.

I have seen this many times and I always find it amazing that an anchor can consistently bury in such a short distance.

aTs84dU.jpg
 
Strangely -

I find Mr Mantus', aka Greg's, promotional video of his M2 (and the conclusions reached by a number of members here) and Mr Mantus'/Greg's comments on CF where he compares the M2 with the M1 quite compelling. He is after all trying to sell anchors and I assume his comments, if anything, gild the lily. Mr Mantus/Greg agrees with Charles Reed (and that latter has no axe to grind). I prefer the independence of Greg and Charles and, as evidence, many of your other images, of your Mantus anchor M1, where the shank stands well proud of the seabed (and to my mind is not particularly well set).

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Strangely -

I find Mr Mantus', aka Greg's, promotional video of his M2 (and the conclusions reached by a number of members here) and Mr Mantus'/Greg's comments on CF where he compares the M2 with the M1 quite compelling. He is after all trying to sell anchors and I assume his comments, if anything, gild the lily. Mr Mantus/Greg agrees with Charles Reed (and that latter has no axe to grind). I prefer the independence of Greg and Charles and, as evidence, many of your other images, of your Mantus anchor M1, where the shank stands well proud of the seabed (and to my mind is not particularly well set).

Jonathan
Click to expand...

If this person called Greg is referred to as Mr Mantus because he is affiliated to Mantus and is trying to sell anchors, I don't understand how he can be considered independent? :confused:

Richard
 
A very valid critical comment Richard. 'Independent' is a totally inadequate word. Naively, or unwittingly, candid might have been a better concept.

Thanks.

In this case he seems to offer a video of an anchor he is trying to sell that shows the anchor dragging a long distance and in one section of the video I'm not sure the anchor actually locks up. People here have commented on how long the M2 anchor drags in the video. He seems to think that length off set is acceptable (or it would not be so prominent in the video), most here would disagree. I don't thus think he has 'doctored' the video - I think its 'as is'. He then goes on to say that the M2 and the M1 seems to have similar setting - sometimes one is better than the other. As a man trying to sell two anchors to an audience and customer base if he thought his anchors performed differently, and in my view better (with a shorter set) he would have shown it. I think the videos and comments can be considered honest - thus true to life and not gilding the lily.

His comments also accord with Charles Reed and the testing I, and others, have done.

Greg is not independent, as you point out, but he is not hiding the long set of the anchors.

Jonathan
 
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vyv_cox said:
This was adopted as a result of experience painfully gained. In 2005 we anchored at San Antonio in Ibiza. The seabed was weedy but in the prevailing and forecast F3 we had no concerns. Sitting in the cockpit we heard a bang and the boat began drifting backwards. On hauling the chain in we found that the swivel connector had broken, almost certainly due to stress corrosion. Its photo is the second one down on http://coxeng.co.uk/metallurgy/stress-corrosion-cracking/ and started me on the process of testing swivels and shackles. Once our alternative anchor was set in what I thought was our original position I began searching for our anchor. The depth of weed was such that I did not find it. Next morning I managed to engage a sport diver who found it very quickly for the price of a €30 and a couple of beers. Ever since then my anchor has been equipped with a float. Most Med sailors seem to do the same.
Click to expand...
Just like to say, that Rocnas don’t require swivels (a weak point)
 
Bouba said:
Just like to say, that Rocnas don’t require swivels (a weak point)
Click to expand...

Anchors can be retrieved and arrive at the bow roller 'back to front'. It only takes half a twist in the rode for this to happen. They will self right (I think all of them) - if the windlass is sufficiently slow and if the bow roller is not too narrow.

If the windlass is fast (and most modern windlass are very fast) then the anchor can be whipped over the bow roller inverted. Equally if the bow roller is very narrow, an increasingly common problem, then the shank will simply jamb in the sides of the roller.

There are a number of solutions - stop the retrieval before the anchor arrives at the bow roller - but If you are single handed you might be at the helm.

However a swivel will not solve the issue anyway - without manual interference (broom handle) and NormanS bent link or my Boomerang is another option (though both of these require some space between windlass and bow roller).

https://www.mysailing.com.au/cruising/how-to-boomerang-your-anchor-right-back-at-you

Jonathan
 
Bouba said:
Just like to say, that Rocnas don’t require swivels (a weak point)
Click to expand...

Use of a swivel has absolutely nothing to do with the make of anchor. A swivel may be a valuable addition to the rode, dependent upon boat design, roller shape, crew capabilities and probably many other factors. I repeat again, if you don't need one, don't use one. I find, after considerable experimentation, that a swivel adds benefits to our cruising, so we use one. I have tried four different swivels of different design and settled on the Kong as being the most suitable for us. It is by no means a weak point, being stronger than the chain and the shackle that connects the three chain links.
 
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