Anodes

Seastoke

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 Sep 2011
Messages
13,365
Visit site
So I have changed the two anodes bolted to the hull and they are both connected to earth, now port side had eroded by half and starboard completely gone. So over the winter could I hang an anode hung over the side and connected to earth.
 
What are they supposed to be protecting? Anodes are not normally connected to "earth" - do you mean battery negatives? If they are to protect your propellers then they need to be connected to the propeller shaft, probably via the gearbox with a bridge over the coupling if it is a flexible type. There is normally nothing else other than perhaps rudders that need anodes.
 
What are they supposed to be protecting? Anodes are not normally connected to "earth" - do you mean battery negatives? If they are to protect your propellers then they need to be connected to the propeller shaft, probably via the gearbox with a bridge over the coupling if it is a flexible type. There is normally nothing else other than perhaps rudders that need anodes.
Keel(s)?
 
Even if it were a sailing boat, generally keels do not need anodes - and if they were fitted would be bolted direct to the keel rather than to the "earth"
Well, strictly speaking, the line "There is normally nothing else other than perhaps rudders that need anodes.", which I was responding to, doesn't mention earth bonding, though the OP does.

Most Trident 24 trikeelers seem to have anodes on the mild steel bilge keels, though less often on the cast iron central ballast keel, and I intend renewing the anodes on mine before it goes in the water, though I'll have to paint the keels first.

There are some accounts of "overprotection" burning off paint, so it might need some "tuning", but that seems a less serious risk than losing metal
 
Well, strictly speaking, the line "There is normally nothing else other than perhaps rudders that need anodes.", which I was responding to, doesn't mention earth bonding, though the OP does.

Most Trident 24 trikeelers seem to have anodes on the mild steel bilge keels, though less often on the cast iron central ballast keel, and I intend renewing the anodes on mine before it goes in the water, though I'll have to paint the keels first.

There are some accounts of "overprotection" burning off paint, so it might need some "tuning", but that seems a less serious risk than losing metal
That may be true, but they were fitted at a time when there was little understanding of galvanic action and there was a tendency to just slap anodes on as a cure for "corrosion" when most of the corrosion on steel and iron is simple rust from contact with salt water.. only real cure for rust on steel bilge plates is what I have done with mine - blast to a high standard and then immediately coat with epoxy. Can also be done with iron ballast keels and works reasonably well, although it is very difficult to get old iron keels really clean, particularly the bottom face. Isolate the metal from the water and hey presto the rust cannot start.

So suggest you don't waste money putting anodes on your keels. If you can't afford blasting/epoxy (cost about £1200 for all 3 keels) then clean them manually as best you can, prime and paint.
 
Last edited:
I have two large anodes on the hull connected to rudders and other stuff, I also have a galvanic isolator
 
I have two large anodes on the hull connected to rudders and other stuff, I also have a galvanic isolator
Reasonable to have anodes close by and connected to rudders - common when rudders are made of a mixture of bronze and stainless. Are yours? How are your propellers protected? They are usually the only thing that need anodes. Galvanic isolators are to protect against possible electrolysis, not galvanic action. Two different things.
 
That may be true, but they were fitted at a time when there was little understanding of galvanic action and there was a tendency to just slap anodes on as a cure for "corrosion" when most of the corrosion on steel and iron is simple rust from contact with salt water.. only real cure for rust on steel bilge plates is what I have done with mine - blast to a high standard and then immediately coat with epoxy. Can also be done with iron ballast keels and works reasonably well, although it is very difficult to get old iron keels really clean, particularly the bottom face. Isolate the metal from the water and hey presto the rust cannot start.

So suggest you don't waste money putting anodes on your keels. If you can't afford blasting/epoxy (cost about £1200 for all 3 keels) then clean them manually as best you can, prime and paint.
Dont quite understand your implied distinction between "simple rust" and corrosion that could be addressed by anodes. "Simple rust" is oxidation, which involves the loss of electrons, so I'd have thought it should be addressable by sacrificial anodes as well as by isolation with paint.

The overprotection thing is, however, a complication that I dont fully understand and will have to read up on some more, but there would seem to be some potential (NPI) for actually measuring the voltage generated, (though I dunno how much a proper reference electrode would cost and one might have to be content with a relative rather than absolute measure).

If the voltage were excessive, as judged either from measurement, or by paint erosion, perhaps it could be "turned down" by partial masking off of the anodes with paint.

In the first instance I'll probably try manual abrasion, aluminium/zinc-rich primer and bitumen top coat, though I might go for epoxy-tar if its still available.
 
Dont quite understand your implied distinction between "simple rust" and corrosion that could be addressed by anodes. "Simple rust" is oxidation, which involves the loss of electrons, so I'd have thought it should be addressable by sacrificial anodes as well as by isolation with paint.

The overprotection thing is, however, a complication that I dont fully understand and will have to read up on some more, but there would seem to be some potential (NPI) for actually measuring the voltage generated, (though I dunno how much a proper reference electrode would cost and one might have to be content with a relative rather than absolute measure).

If the voltage were excessive, as judged either from measurement, or by paint erosion, perhaps it could be "turned down" by partial masking off of the anodes with paint.

In the first instance I'll probably try manual abrasion, aluminium/zinc-rich primer and bitumen top coat, though I might go for epoxy-tar if its still available.
"simple" rust is iron oxide formed by the reaction between steel or iron and moisture - absolutely nothing to do with galvanic action. Electricity has nothing to do with it. Only way of preventing this type of corrosion is to isolate the steel/iron from moisture. Iron castings such as used for ballast keels are slightly different from mild steel sheet as used in bilge plates in that there are often traces of other metals with different potential to iron in the casting. This can set up localised galvanic circuits usually evidenced by pock marks on the surface of the casting. While in theory an anode might reduce this, but the size and volume of a typical keel in relation to the anode limits its effectiveness. What often happens is that the pock marks break the paint covering exposing iron to water which then rusts and the rust spreads under paint. The difficulty with preparing such castings for better protection is getting the craters clean of all traces of corrosion. Hard work doing it manually but blasting makes it easier.

In reality with an old boat it is rarely worth all the effort and the usual approach is do as best job you can then local patching when necessary.
 
I think "Electricity has nothing to do with it" is incorrect. As I said, oxidation involves a loss of electrons, and thus in general practice oxidation of iron/steel can be and is mitigated by galvanic protection, where protective electrons are donated either from sacrificial anodes, or by an impressed DC voltage/current.

Admittedly though my chemistry classes were rather a long time ago, and IIRC I only got a C grade,

In the first instance I intend replacing 'whatever was there, then adjusting with experience. TBH I'm unsure whether the iron keel (as opposed to the steel bilge plates) was fited for anodes, though it sounds like it might benefit, so I might consider doing it if it wasn't.

I suppose it would have to be drilled and tapped for a stud to mount the anode, opening up the worm can of what metal to use for the stud, and where to put it.

I wont shell out for sandblasting initially but might consider it in the future,
 
As I said, oxidation involves a loss of electrons, and thus in general practice oxidation of iron/steel can be and is ,

No rust is the interaction between Iron and Oxygen either in air or dissolved in water.

Rust is either FE203 or FE3 O4 and is very brittle and thus flakes off.

The main way of protecting from rust *Fe2 03/Fe304 is stepping Oxygen from reacting with the Iron either by painting of with pther protective coating galivanting or sherardizing.

I have a steel boat and is painted with Epoxy tar which is less hydroscopic than normal Epoxy

I do have anodes on my hull and rudder but after over 10 years have not wasted much and tend to get coated with a calcium type substance.

The anodes are them mainly to protect the hull if the paint surface gets damaged by grounding.

Anodes are used as a proffered protection so the electrode transfer will take place from the anode in proffered to the electrode transfer from the metal being protected.

If the steel was not protected in any way, it would tend to rust or if they are dissimilar metals electrically connected in an electrolyte (sea water) the steel would not tend to rust but would dissolve due to electrolytic action (transferee of electrodes)

impressed electric current can both prevent electracies or increase electronics thus is quite a complex subject
 
Last edited:
Reasonable to have anodes close by and connected to rudders - common when rudders are made of a mixture of bronze and stainless. Are yours? How are your propellers protected? They are usually the only thing that need anodes. Galvanic isolators are to protect against possible electrolysis, not galvanic action. Two different things.
This is wrong, in fact more or less the opposite of what is correct.
Galvanic isolators protect against the effects of the very low voltages which are the result of "dissimilar metals " immersed in seawater where one is on the boat concerned (and usually the anodes) while the other is off the boat but connected by the protective earth conductor of the shore power system . The latter maybe a nearby steel hull or structural steel work, for example.

Galvanic isolators generally give protection up to around 1.4 volt difference in the galvanic potentials. They do not block voltages greater than this which may be leakages from a 12 or 24 volt DC system. It is this which can cause electrolysis, without dissimilar metals being involved.

Importantly, of course, galvanic isolators do not block current flow from "mains" voltage AC systems, allowing normal functionality of the protective earth conductor.
 
I have two large anodes on the hull connected to rudders and other stuff, I also have a galvanic isolator
The anodes should be connected to whatever they are protecting, rudders, shafts, props etc. There is no point connecting them to the batteries. Shore power should go to the GI and then to the onboard protective Earth circuit, with a single connection to one of the anodes.
 
Top